D&D 4E Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023

[Micah Sweet]

A non-magical way someone could taunt creatures into acting recklessly in D&D? Only WotC could create such a travesty!
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Don't forget that section about the DM applying bonuses and penalties based on the individual and the situation.

 

[James Gasik]

Don't forget that section about the DM applying bonuses and penalties based on the individual and the situation.

I mean, if that's the important part. But can't the DM always do that?

 

[Micah Sweet]

I mean, if that's the important part. But can't the DM always do that?

Of course. But 4e power formats really discouraged from doing anything the power didn't allow in the rules text.

 

[James Gasik]

Of course. But 4e power formats really discouraged from doing anything the power didn't allow in the rules text.

Um...why do you say that? I mean house rules are the essence of D&D, and 4e was no exception. Here's an excerpt from the DMG:

 

[Micah Sweet]

Um...why do you say that? I mean house rules are the essence of D&D, and 4e was no exception. Here's an excerpt from the DMG:
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That sounds like the game implicitly telling you its a bad idea, but technically allowing it.

 

[Voadam]

Oh I'm aware of how it worked in 3.5, which is why I was surprised that Hold Monster in 5e didn't say "any living creature" as the 3.5 version did, just "a creature". It may be that every construct in 5e is immune in the stat block to paralysis, I really haven't looked, but it seems they don't have to be.

In a similar vein, the idea that 5e allows me to use spells like Confusion on the undead is a breath of fresh air, since I haven't been able to do that since 2e, lol.

Yeah, 5e is a bit sloppy with no type traits but a lot of common ones for types such as constructs and undead.

It is odd that hold monster mentions undead but not constructs for immunity, a lot of things in 5e are specific about both being excluded from certain effects.

Homunculus are 5e MM constructs without the paralyzed condition immunity. So are Modrons. Every other construct in the 5e MM are immune (animated objects, golems, helmed horror, shield guardian, scarecrow).

 

[James Gasik]

That sounds like the game implicitly telling you its a bad idea, but technically allowing it.

I mean, if that's how you interpret it. I saw it as "just think about what you're trying to do", advice I wish I had back when I first started DMing back in AD&D, lol, where I made up some fairly....unique...house rules that I quickly regretted, lol.

 

[Red Castle]

Um...why do you say that? I mean house rules are the essence of D&D, and 4e was no exception. Here's an excerpt from the DMG:
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I never really understood this position, that somehow 4e discouraged, was against or hard to house rule. I made (and still use) a couple of house rules or modifications, particularily regarding fighting in elevations, and on the contrary, it always felt very easy to do so… I mean, there is a lot, and I mean a lot of pages explaining the mechanic and math behind the game so it is easy to modify at will without risking to ´break’ the game.

YMMV I guess…

 

[Voadam]

Of course. But 4e power formats really discouraged from doing anything the power didn't allow in the rules text.

I remember some early discussion/posting by Mearls or somebody about I think whether a flame power could set things alight, something with a door and a lock?. I honestly can't remember which way it was coming down on whether powers should be narratively open to innovative uses or narratively limited by their mechanics.

I know the 4e skills were specifically open ended to encourage broad cinematic innovative uses versus 3.5's fairly mundane mechanically defined uses.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I never really understood this position, that somehow 4e discouraged, was against or hard to house rule. I made (and still use) a couple of house rules or modifications, particularily regarding fighting in elevations, and on the contrary, it always felt very easy to do so… I mean, there is a lot, and I mean a lot of pages explaining the mechanic and math behind the game so it is easy to modify at will without risking to ´break’ the game.

YMMV I guess…

One could argue that all those explanations are there so you know why you shouldn't change anything. That was the impression I got.