D&D 5E Don't Throw 5e Away Because of Hasbro

[Retreater]

Wonder what the Venn diagram (Vennger diagram?) looks like for people who love 5e and are boycotting Hasbro? I'd wager that's a very small fraction of gamers.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

So you are talking about the section of people that love 5e but that don’t want to play it anymore—even if they are just using already-purchased books—because of their dislike for Hasbro? Again, maybe I’m just out of touch but how many people are taking that exact stand? Sure, some people may decide against buying any new hasbro products, but how many people with a 2014 phb laying around will refuse to play a game they love because of what Hasbro did in 2023?

I agree that if you like 5e, and want new content for it without supporting Hasbro, you have plenty of 3p options

Well, you know how some people are ...

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Sorry but I haven't could read all the posts.

I can understand they are a megacorporation and they want to earn a lot of money to pay the bills. But this is not only about to sell a product with a good price-quality ratio but the prestige of the brand, and here the company should coherent with an ethical code. They shouldn't test our patiente and loyalty because then they would be risking, betting seriously, the prestige of the brand.

The company has to make merit to earn the customer's affection for the brand

I don't want to boycott them, but if they don't sell the type of products I love to collect, then I will think twice before buying a new title.

Is the 5.24 edition in square format? That is a radical change. WotC did it with Star Wars saga RPG, but it is a strange feeling to see a square book in the self with the rest of books.

I suspect not even WotC team can safe what will be the ultimate plans for 2024 because there could be surprising changes in the company. And the strategy to follow will depend on the economic events of this new year.

D&D is not only the rules, but as brand is also the lore/background, the settings, the characters, the timeline of the worlds.. Here Hasbro worries more about D&D as brand and potential multimedia-franchise. The TTRPG would be the bait to sell the rest of different merchandising products.

I have said in the past the weak point of d20 system is not ready to be universal and compatible. You can create a d20 sci-fi or a d20 superheroes, but the firearms and modern technology can't be added to fantasy d20 without a serious risk to break the power balance. This is a serious handicap if Hasbro wants to publish licenced titles based in franchises from cinematographic, comic, or videogame industries.

I don't like the format of three books together, because I don't want to buy adventures I will never play, or this only once.

* A lot of players don't want to learn more systems. Or at least they would rather to focus in only one for the crunch. I love the lore of Eclipse Phase RPG, the transhumanist sci-fi game I bought, but I can't understand the list of abilities scores.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

WotC D&D is going through a bit of a slump sales-wise right now, but the vast majority of it isn't because of Hasbro/WotC's foolish shenanigans. It's because 1) the last few books have failed to excite* and have been reviewed poorly, with reason; 2) there's always a big hold-out when a new "edition" is on the horizon. Everyone holds off in buying books until they see what the new books are like.

The first might not have been so bad, were it not for the second. I honestly think that things will right themselves when the 2024 Core books come out, and they turn out to be what WotC's designers have always said was their goal: A slightly-better version of 5e.

*Personally, I think the Deck of Many Things is very exciting, but the last-minute recall followed by missing Christmas just about killed what momentum it had, and it's also going to suffer from the wait-and-see approach that is naturally taken by the vast majority of purchasers. Hopefully it will have a long shelf-life, but I suspect that it's not a product that WotC will be willing to do a lot of printings on. We'll have to see. It might disappear from the shelves relatively quickly.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

So you are talking about the section of people that love 5e but that don’t want to play it anymore—even if they are just using already-purchased books—because of their dislike for Hasbro? Again, maybe I’m just out of touch but how many people are taking that exact stand? Sure, some people may decide against buying any new hasbro products, but how many people with a 2014 phb laying around will refuse to play a game they love because of what Hasbro did in 2023?

I agree that if you like 5e, and want new content for it without supporting Hasbro, you have plenty of 3p options

I think @SlyFlourish is absolutely right when it comes to the solution, but a little overly concerned about what is essentially (IMO) a very small problem in the grand scheme of things. I understand that it's probably a bigger problem in the sphere that Mike plays in than in the "outside world", so it's an understandable position, given his placement in the industry.

But you're absolutely right - the Venn diagram of people who like 5e enough to want to play it, but care enough about Hasbro's BS to want to boycott them... is pretty small. OTOH, it probably includes quite a few influential people, so there's that. Still, I don't think it would be a large enough group to effect MY bottom like (as a game store owner) far or less WotC's.

 

[SlyFlourish]

I don’t even know what to say…

I keep hearing I must play other games but just don’t want to. Maybe some becmi as a lark. Maybe some OSRIC for the feels…

But I really like D&D. I have been exposed to other stuff but am really looking for D&Disms.

I keep hearing it’s not good…

It’s like people telling me a certain kind of music I love is substandard. Ok…thanks for the tip? I listened to “that” and don’t like it. Really I am not just brainwashed. I really don’t like X game better. Not sure what else to say.

Try adding in some other 5e stuff. Its great.

 

[SlyFlourish]

I think @SlyFlourish is absolutely right when it comes to the solution, but a little overly concerned about what is essentially (IMO) a very small problem in the grant scheme of things. I understand that it's probably a bigger problem in the sphere that Mike plays in than in the grand scheme of things, so it's an understandable position, given his placement in the industry.

But you're absolutely right - the Venn diagram of people who like 5e enough to want to play it, but care enough about Hasbro's BS to want to boycott them... is pretty small. OTOH, it probably includes quite a few influential people, so there's that. Still, I don't think it would be a large enough group to effect MY bottom like (as a game store owner) far or less WotC's.

How can we know how big it is? I keep hearing from them and running into people.

 

[SlyFlourish]

They can change the rules significantly enough so that the 2014 5.1 SRD will become incompatible & thus obsolete in a few months. Character creation has already changed significantly. The new SRD will very likely be released with a new OGL license. I highly doubt they are going to have anything new released into creative commons, especially since they have failed to fulfill their promise to release both the 3.5 & 4e SRD into CC.


I think that its cool if you feel that way personally, but I don't think that means you get to say that every 3pp scene is toxic, while the wotc scene isn't?



You can't compare anything else in the industry to wotc. It is absurd to try. They make a billion off of MtG every year, they can lose money on dnd and not care about it, saturating the market with nothing but dnd, cutting out LGS' and selling direct to amazon, cutting out distributors and companies that have supported them for years. They can restructure the entire industry on a whim, either by threat of rescinding licenses, or by being so financially invulnerable as to wither any dissent to their desires.

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

-Some Final Thoughts For the Evening Regarding the History of the OGL:

What you might not understand, is that for those of us who fully embraced the 3e SRD back when it was released, we saw hope. We saw the original OGL as the holy grail, and have studied the original 3e SRD like a holy codex from the early days of the open source movement as an example to shine. We were terribly, horribly, utterly wrong.

FOR OVER TWENTY YEARS, we trusted them to stay true to the spirit of the license they themselves created. For over twenty years the OGL was a safe haven for publishers, thats over twenty years of goodwill that now lies dead in the boneyard. They do not get that goodwill back from 3pp's in a few months, if ever again.

They tried to burn the whole industry down, including me. I spent years making a 5e compatible game that was less than a year away from release when the OGL debacle happened, and I lost not only years of work, and my entire business, but I lost any faith in their ability to keep any promise they might make in the future. I trusted them a second time after the 4e GSL tried to kill the OGL, it is my failure alone that I trusted them again.

Should I as a potential 3pp be receptive to their "positive" social media presence, or their successful attempts to destroy my years of hard work?

My response was to leave the 5e ecosystem and make my own game, they really didn't leave us with any other options. I am not contributing to a dnd monopoly where its one game to rule them all.

Incompatible yes. Obsolete, no.

 

[Parmandur]

How can we know how big it is? I keep hearing from them and running into people.

Well, as Fitz said, it hasn't impacted his bottom line as a retailer. And the evidence seems to suggest thst it hasn't impacted WotC bottom line.

 

[CellarHeroes]

But I really love 5e. I think it's a great system and I think it has tons of potential. I learn new things about it every week.

This line in particular really made me think. During the DnDNext playtest and several years after I was a avid advocate for 5e, because I could see its potential. After the release of some of the supplements my enthusiasm started to wane. I didn't buy the supplements, because the content didn't interest me. I allowed the players at my table to use them. Then the game started to become less fun to play.

Based on my experiences with the playtest, and having Mike Mearls and the Chris's steering this ship, I was expected the game to zig but it ended up zagging. I don't feel there's anything wrong with that, because I could still play in a way that was fun to me. I would just need to houserule/homebrew a few things. Then as playstyles began to change, I felt I needed to change my game more...until it didn't resemble the 5e I enjoyed.

As much as I scowl at 5e, it isn't because I hate the system...it's because I love it and am very disappointed in it. It had so much potential.