D&D (2024) Rogue's Been in an Awkward Place, And This Survey Might Be Our Last Chance to Let WotC Know.

[Yaarel]

Dragons generally have intelligence and wisdom equal or better than most humanoids. Why would they let them get pelted by hundreds of arrows when they could do the spoiler?

Spoiler: best I could make

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Breath weapons might be limited to distances similar to bow range, a rock a cow or even half of a cow is not faced with those limits however. hundreds of peasants even aid in targeting by making "close enough" still pretty deadly to the pesants.

A Dragon dropping Large boulders would only hit 1 to 3 soldiers at a time, or not much more for a Huge boulder if the Dragon is able to Carry it aloft.

Meanwhile the Dragon is within reach of most arrows and many spells.

If the Dragon is too high an altitude, the boulder is easier to see coming and to be avoided.

 

[Maxperson]

I like the 5e bounded accuracy. It feels more real. The concept of a town army going after a dragon wouldnt even be thinkable in 3e but can happen in 5e.

I like bounded accuracy as well, though 5e bounded it too much and it should have been +10 over 20 levels instead of 6. However, you don't name a game after something the town militia can take out. You might as well call the game Dungeons and Some Ogres.

A dragon shouldn't be vulnerable to a town militia like that. Hell, it should be able to take out a major city if old enough. They are the quintessential monster that warranted the game being named after it.

 

[Yaarel]

I like bounded accuracy as well, though 5e bounded it too much and it should have been +10 over 20 levels instead of 6. However, you don't name a game after something the town militia can take out. You might as well call the game Dungeons and Some Ogres.

A dragon shouldn't be vulnerable to a town militia like that. Hell, it should be able to take out a major city if old enough. They are the quintessential monster that warranted the game being named after it.

Dont forget, "True" Dragons are also spellcasters. At least some of them are. A DM can easily augment an individual Dragon.

With regard to bounded accuracy, in practice, it tends to get stretched beyond its original intention anyway. Magic items mess with it significantly. The game has accumulated various ways add bonuses.

 

[tetrasodium]

A Dragon dropping boulders would only hit 1 to 3 soldiers at a time, or much not more for a Huge boulder if the Dragon is able to Carry it aloft.

Meanwhile the Dragon is within reach of most arrows and many spells.

The wi image may have given a giant boulder, but I'm pretty sure that 4 to 40 pound cannon balls had a better return than musket balls. Even if the dragon is limiting themselves to flying overhead with a branch of 1.5 pound coconuts for simplicity you are talking about 10-20 rounds that can be dropped hundreds of feet.a falling object has a range of "whatever it takes to reach the ground" why would a dragon fly in peasant army voe range?

 

[Yaarel]

The wi image may have given a giant boulder, but I'm pretty sure that 4 to 40 pound cannon balls had a better return than musket balls. Even if the dragon is limiting themselves to flying overhead with a branch of 1.5 pound coconuts for simplicity you are talking about 10-20 rounds that can be dropped hundreds of feet.a falling object has a range of "whatever it takes to reach the ground" why would a dragon fly in peasant army voe range?

This battle of a Dragon dropping individual canon balls on hundreds of soldiers, from very high altitudes where the cannon ball can be easily avoided, would last ... weeks? ... forever?

It isnt much better than shooting a bullet in the air and wondering where it might land.

 

[Maxperson]

Dont forget, "True" Dragons are also spellcasters. At least some of them are. A DM can easily augment an individual Dragon.

Which doesn't solve the problem. A militia shouldn't be able to kill a dragon.

With regard to bounded accuracy, in practice, it tends to get stretched beyond its original intention anyway. Magic items mess with it significantly. The game has accumulated various ways add bonuses.

Magic items don't mess with it because PCs aren't bounded. If you look back at the Rodney Thompson quote I showed, bounded accuracy is only about how the DM side of things make assumptions. It does not assume that PCs attacks, defense, saves, etc. improve even 1 point. The mounters are bounded within certain limits and don't increased based on those things. We know from other quotes that since magic items are optional, the game doesn't assume PCs have any of those, either.

That means that nothing that PCs get to boost those things has any impact on bounded accuracy whatsoever, as the bounded game doesn't even look at those things.

 

[Yaarel]

For a smell test, here is an image of an aerial view from 600 feet high. A Dragon would need to be higher than this to be meaningfully out of reach of the arrows.

I dont think a Dragon can feasibly target individual soldiers with a canon ball from such an altitude. A Disadvantage at best, or even virtually impossible. The Dragon would need to literally be a sniper with sharpshooting traits.

 

[Yaarel]

A militia shouldn't be able to kill a dragon.

Heh. I see you are a 3e fan!


I know you are talking about the Dragon requiring "plot protection", which is fine. But it depends on the Dragon, and the scenario.

For the "average" Dragon, sotospeak, a town army should be able to kill it if necessary for self defense.

Maybe the Ancient Gargantuans are a different story.

 

[tetrasodium]

This battle of a Dragon dropping individual canon balls on hundreds of soldiers, from very high altitudes where the cannon ball can be easily avoided, would last ... weeks? ... forever?

It isnt much better than shooting a bullet in the air and wondering where it might land.

The same absurdity you are trying to involve applies to a village militia taking on a dragon. The only difference is that the dragon seeing hundreds of villagers approaching their lair could just say "K, LOL" and fly off to go slaughter/destroy the undefended livestock crops and village structures.

IoW the very reason a dragon is a nation state level issue rather than village militia level nuisance is the dragon's ability to think. "Hundreds of villagers vrs a dragon" only works as a scenario if you take away the dragon's ability to think and reason at or above human levels.

For a smell test, here is an image of an aerial view from 600 feet high. A Dragon would need to be higher than this to be meaningfully out of reach of the arrows.

I dont think an Dragon can feasibly target individual soldiers with a canon ball from such an altitude. A Disadvantage at best, or even virtually impossible.

They don't need to target individual villagers because you have a swarm of hundreds. The dragon only needs to injure incapacitate or kill enough to make poking their nose into the dragon's territory recognized as stupid idea

 

[Vaalingrade]

Heh. I see you are a 3e fan!


I know you are talking about the Dragon requiring "plot protection", which is fine. But it depends on the Dragon, and the scenario.

For the "average" Dragon, sotospeak, a town army should be able to kill it if necessary for self defense.

Maybe the Ancient Gargantuans are a different story.

Why even are adventurers if a swarm of nobodies can take on THE premier monster?