D&D General I hate five-foot passages!

[FitzTheRuke]

I will pretty much always double the scale on a dungeon that looks like that. Because forget "realism", I'd rather have fun.

 

[LordEntrails]

IMO it's because of poor project management. Rarely are the adventure designers and the cartographers actually working together very closely so that the creatures that live in the places drawn by the cartographers have appropriate tactics.

Ultimately though that is the failure of the designer. They should not (normally) be putting a creature in a location in which it is not safe. i.e. why make a room your home if you can't make it safe? (Yes there are reasons, but such reasons should be part of the design, not a random symptom.)

And then of course you have the simple failure to realize that the design is for a game. The game has mechanics. And that the adventure should be "fun". And all that means that realism is a poor reason to make a hallway 5 feet wide.

 

[the Jester]

If you're going to fight in a 5' hallway, do it right.

That aside, the clip actually shows one thing that isn't modeled very well in D&D with its attritional hit point model: the importance of being on the offense. Daredevil opens up the first door, rushes in, and quickly beats the dudes inside up before they have a chance to react. D&D doesn't reflect that very well, particularly not with the way enemy hp scales to damage. There's no way a D&D party rushing into a room like that would have much effect on the creatures within, at least not enough to ignore the advantages of defending a narrow passageway.

This is why 4e-style minions are awesome.

 

[Zaukrie]

I think there's really two issues: verisimilitude and interesting combat encounters.

On the verisimilitude angle, I don't have any issue with it, for all the reasons other people have mentioned.

From the combat encounter angle though, I can see it being a problem. If it's just one encounter PCs might feel good using smart tactics to defeat a challenging enemy, but if keeps coming up, it can make things dull.

The bigger game play issue for me with the 5-foot is that there's often room for one melee fighter, so if the party has several of them, some have to sit in the back and throw javelins.

This......and I would rather err on the fun side than the "realism" side. It's just not fun if some/many of the PCs have little to do. It's ok to do this occasionally, but it isn't just hallways and doors. So many rooms are realistically small that you can't even get more than 1 or 2 PCs in the room. I don't know how to fix this....

 

[overgeeked]

From "The Shattered Obelisk" (roll20 port).

The rogue (who opened the door) won initiative and moved back so that the slaad had to squeeze to attack.

Why do people keep doing this?

View attachment 348430

Why would the slaad squeeze into the hall? Just close the door. They have perfect positioning and a great advantage in that only one PC can be in the doorway at a time. The slaadi just stand there with readied attacks and hit whoever opens the door. They stand next to the door rather than in front if it and none of the PCs can attack them at range. As long as they’re not trying to sleep in the five-foot hallway, I don’t see a problem.

 

[el-remmen]

I must admit I’ll be very happy when the grapple rules change

I hadn’t realized that this was going to change. I looked it up and immediately made a stink face. 5e not only has the first simple and adaptable grapple rules in my experience playing D&D but I think opposed rolls are much more interesting and dynamic than a static DC.

As someone who voted “pick and choose” in that other thread about D&D2024, I know one thing I will not be choosing to pick.

As for the topic of the thread, to me this reads as a combination of being a little too beholden to the rules and the inflexibility of a VTT. On a battlemat you can redraw the entrance on the fly without having to redo the scale of the whole map.

 

[Quickleaf]

Every D&D adventure writer needs to have a design crib sheet of “thou must’s” and “thou shalt nots.”

For example: “Thou shalt not place Large creatures in rooms with Medium doors without good cause. For verily, they shall bump their heads.”

 

[Mannahnin]

Every D&D adventure writer needs to have a design crib sheet of “thou must’s” and “thou shalt nots.”

For example: “Thou shalt not place Large creatures in rooms with Medium doors without good cause. For verily, they shall bump their heads.”

This was a virtue of 3.0 having Large height creatures like Ogres still only take up a 5' square on the map.

 

[TheSword]

I hadn’t realized that this was going to change. I looked it up and immediately made a stink face. 5e not only has the first simple and adaptable grapple rules in my experience playing D&D but I think opposed rolls are much more interesting and dynamic than a static DC.

As someone who voted “pick and choose” in that other thread about D&D2024, I know one thing I will not be choosing to pick.

As for the topic of the thread, to me this reads as a combination of being a little too beholden to the rules and the inflexibility of a VTT. On a battlemat you can redraw the entrance on the fly without having to redo the scale of the whole map.

I’m pretty sure the rogue decided to backtrack and hold the corridor after the fact. Not sure how you can redraw the map after the combat has started.

I much prefer 5.5 grapple. Monsters getting ability score bonus vs PCs getting to add Athletics or Balance is a joke. Making even level 1 characters better at grappling than an ogre. Very annoying. Not to mention grappling lasting until someone breaks. You never know they may not change it but I really hope they do.

 

[el-remmen]

I’m pretty sure the rogue decided to backtrack and hold the corridor after the fact. Not sure how you can redraw the map after the combat has started.

Sure, but if the DM knows this is an issue for him (or his players' understanding of "fun") then he can change it as it is revealed or during prep since presumably the DM knows what is in the room.

I much prefer 5.5 grapple. Monsters getting ability score bonus vs PCs getting to add Athletics or Balance is a joke. Making even level 1 characters better at grappling than an ogre. Very annoying. Not to mention grappling lasting until someone breaks. You never know they may not change it but I really hope they do.

I'd give an ogre proficiency in athletics. In fact, I'd give any similar monster that gets rough and tumble that kind of proficiency or an ability. This is also what I mean by "too beholden to the rules." I also grandfather 3E modifiers for size difference (when grappling). But I am one of those wackadoo people that sees all the editions of D&D as a buffet from which to take the rules (or rule ideas, even if it needs to be implemented differently).

Now I am not saying that everyone should have to do that kind of thing, but if it is that important to your play experience, change it. It is not a big deal.