D&D General If faith in yourself is enough to get power, do we need Wizards and Warlocks etc?

[RangerWickett]

The way I usually run it in my games is that clerics have to be formally invested in a priesthood in order to be able to use power greater than a certain minor threshold. If you have faith, you might be able to come become a first level cleric.

To become anything third level or higher, the priesthood actually has to ordain you, and the power of the priesthood comes from the collective faith of all the worshipers. However, once you are ordained, your faith isn't actually necessary anymore. You have tapped into some sort of divine rule set where you get the power even if your faith lapses.

I think this is important for the narrative of corrupt and faithless priests.

 

[DarkCrisis]

.

Heck of a thread resurrection for a dot.

 

[MGibster]

Heck of a thread resurrection for a dot.

Such is the power of faith.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

edit apparently an ancient thread someone put back to the top, rather not create more repetitive circles But can'T find the delete button.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Is that a bad thing?

Or rather... is it true?
Let say you're playing a Paladin of Bahamut. Honor and helping the innocent that can't fight for themselves is an important virtue for Bahamut. The rules don't say anymore: "If you act dishonorable, your powers are gone". But in-universe, if you act dishonorable and murder a few innocents for their gold, what are other Bahamut adherents thinking of you? What does Bahamut think of you? Can the DM not have the church of Bahamut send agents to arrest the Paladin for heresy, or send an Angelic choir acting in the name of Bahamut to drag him to hell?
There definitely seem to still be in-universe levers.

i think the friction maybe comes from the fact that if that happens then it's 'the GM deciding to spoil my fun', those agents only exist because the GM decided they do, rather than an emotionally neutral rulebook stating established consequence.

 

[M_Natas]

i think the friction maybe comes from the fact that if that happens then it's 'the GM deciding to spoil my fun', those agents only exist because the GM decided they do, rather than an emotionally neutral rulebook stating established consequence.

That's why the 5e Paladin is conceptionally bad. The powers are cool and fun to play, but narrativly, RAW, just having powers because you have strong convictions is bad.

Like we have magical Power trough Knowledge (Wizards, Bards), Power trough external sources (Cleric, Warlock), a mix if those two (Druid, Ranger), and magical power trough Mutation of Body (Sorcerer).
We also have martial Power which is usually considered through training.

And then we have the Paladin who gains Power trough ... believing in himself...

Which is Bad. The 5e Paladin needs a better narrative.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That's why the 5e Paladin is conceptionally bad. The powers are cool and fun to play, but narrativly, RAW, just having powers because you have strong convictions is bad.

Like we have magical Power trough Knowledge (Wizards, Bards), Power trough external sources (Cleric, Warlock), a mix if those two (Druid, Ranger), and magical power trough Mutation of Body (Sorcerer).
We also have martial Power which is usually considered through training.

And then we have the Paladin who gains Power trough ... believing in himself...

Which is Bad. The 5e Paladin needs a better narrative.

They used to have one. But then someone decided having limits and following rules to get power wasn't fun.

 

[pawsplay]

If miracles can do anything, and all you need to do is believe in yourself, why do we need fighters? Heck, why do we need farmers, why not just pray for food?

 

[TwoSix]

That's why the 5e Paladin is conceptionally bad. The powers are cool and fun to play, but narrativly, RAW, just having powers because you have strong convictions is bad.

Like we have magical Power trough Knowledge (Wizards, Bards), Power trough external sources (Cleric, Warlock), a mix if those two (Druid, Ranger), and magical power trough Mutation of Body (Sorcerer).
We also have martial Power which is usually considered through training.

And then we have the Paladin who gains Power trough ... believing in himself...

Which is Bad. The 5e Paladin needs a better narrative.

I'll be honest, the universe giving you supernatural powers because your sheer will is so strong sounds super badass to me.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I'll be honest, the universe giving you supernatural powers because your sheer will is so strong sounds super badass to me.

Except it implies that only self-profess paladins have strong enough will to give them powers just because.