D&D 5E Help me understand & find the fun in OC/neo-trad play...

[prabe]

This is one reason why I like having something akin to Fate Aspects. (Good job, Fabula Ultima!) It's easier for me to create complications or weave arcs when players have "guiding aspects" that work well for setting arcs up because it's simply easier for me to keep track of those things when they are written down. IME, it also helps players keep track of it because it's on their character sheet, and they can even be proactive about those character elements.

I personally found Aspects in Fate to be both inadequate and too intrusive. I think I compelled a PC once in a year-plus campaign. Obviously different people--and different groups--will have different experiences.

 

[tetrasodium]

I personally found Aspects in Fate to be both inadequate and too intrusive. I think I compelled a PC once in a year-plus campaign. Obviously different people--and different groups--will have different experiences.

Barring trouble and consequence aspects or playing against HC Most compels are self compels (for the easy fate points), compelling a player tends to come up when there is something they didn't know about or forgot.

Where aspects really shine is in motivation and building off existing elements/events.
I think that it was strong or maybe Fred Hick's blog that had an example of the players infiltrating a business after hours to steal a macguffin but getting in a fight where a macguffin endangering fire starts. Over the course of trying to get the fire under control the bbeg escapes and the players use the after hours corp office aspect of the building to invoke/declare a janitor's full mop bucket into the hallway to help them with the fire. Later the bbeg is cornered in the building but spends a fate point to declare the (now hostage) janitor into existence in order to I forget (escape or recover his macguffin) by compelling against one of the paladin's aspects.

Guy from how to be a great gm has a great video about "ogas" that is basically just apply fate aspects to d&d NPCs too. That video has several great examples of how they can be used in play

When it comes to compels, Mearls even has a story about a compel type mechanic that was present in one of the early "proto 5e" play sessions in a genco(?) panel called 5 generations of d&d that was pretty good for getting into the why & what it adds to the game
edit: link to & quote of the mearls example in this post

 

[Aldarc]

I personally found Aspects in Fate to be both inadequate and too intrusive. I think I compelled a PC once in a year-plus campaign. Obviously different people--and different groups--will have different experiences.

It depends on how you use them. Guiding aspects like "Why do you fight against the system?" can be used for characters to establish their own character arcs.

Again, remember that Troubles are supposed to be player self-selected lightning rods for their characters. This can be things like "Unsolved Murder of My Brother." Compels don't have to be "your character does this." Compels can involve presenting the player with hard choices between what's good for the party/society/etc. versus solving their brother's murder.

If you would like, we can discuss Aspects and Troubles in Fate on another thread.

 

[prabe]

It depends on how you use them. Guiding aspects like "Why do you fight against the system?" can be used for characters to establish their own character arcs.

Again, remember that Troubles are supposed to be player self-selected lightning rods for their characters. This can be things like "Unsolved Murder of My Brother." Compels don't have to be "your character does this." Compels can involve presenting the player with hard choices between what's good for the party/society/etc. versus solving their brother's murder.

If you would like, we can discuss Aspects and Troubles in Fate on another thread.

I am probably the worst possible GM to run Fate in good faith. But then, I ran Cypher without ever Intruding (except on nat 1s). At least in Cypher I could hack the XP system; the Fate Point Economy merely imploded.

 

[Aldarc]

I am probably the worst possible GM to run Fate in good faith. But then, I ran Cypher without ever Intruding (except on nat 1s). At least in Cypher I could hack the XP system; the Fate Point Economy merely imploded.

Again, I think that part of the issue is rethinking how to use Aspects and Troubles.

 

[prabe]

Barring trouble and consequence aspects or playing against HC Most compels are self compels (for the easy fate points), compelling a player tends to come up when there is something they didn't know about or forgot.

Honestly, I don't think I remember any of the players ever self-compelling, and the one time I Compelled a PC it felt cheap and lazy.

Where aspects really shine is in motivation and building off existing elements/events.

I haven't ever had a problem with PCs being inadequately or inappropriately motivated, or with tying past things to present or future things.

Basically, Fate points are one of those things that seemed like a cool thing but never worked for me in actual play. Some of that might have been the other people at the table, but at this point I can't muster the desire to try again.

 

[prabe]

Again, I think that part of the issue is rethinking how to use Aspects and Troubles.

I do GM Stuff when and how it makes sense to me, in the context of the narrative and the game mechanics. I don't keep track at all of what's on the players' sheets--that's not what I think of as my job.

 

[Aldarc]

I do GM Stuff when and how it makes sense to me, in the context of the narrative and the game mechanics. I don't keep track at all of what's on the players' sheets--that's not what I think of as my job.

A GM's job differs from game to game. If you play all TTRPGs the same, then it's little wonder why you have a bad time.

 

[tetrasodium]

Honestly, I don't think I remember any of the players ever self-compelling, and the one time I Compelled a PC it felt cheap and lazy.

A lot of players think of it that way at first, but the important part is doing it in ways that complicate things to potentially interesting results later. the fate core book talks about it a lot(almost the whole thing is effectively learning how to grok aspects in some way). Breaking that mindset can be difficult. Some of it comes down to how character& in play aspects are phrased to be a bit six of one half dozen of the other as well. If you watch the game of fate in the spoiler below (wil wheaton felecia day & a couple well notable tv writers playing) you can probably see some great examples of compels both from how they phrase their character aspects & user the world/scene aspects.

Spoiler

 

[prabe]

A GM's job differs from game to game. If you play all TTRPGs the same, then it's little wonder why you have a bad time.

Didn't I say I was the worst possible good faith GM for Fate? It's not a matter of running/playing all games the same, it's that the game wants the GM to do things I do not--in some cases will not--do. It took me longer than I would have preferred to figure that out.