D&D General What it means for a race to end up in the PHB, its has huge significance

[Belen]

Then reality will often be surprising as companies navigate not being offensive, I suppose.

They will never find a way to not offend people.

But that's also a problem, hence why ASI has been removed to Background.

Ugh...I missed this one. I am not a fan of moving it to background as I like that background enhanced character backstories. This will make it even more important for optimizers.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

In some theoretical 6e I'd have hybrids handled by the minor/major traits which mix, and then have things like planetouched handled by feat trees.

So if for example you wanted a dwarf-halfing fire genasi, you would pick the major trait from one parent, and the minor trait from the other. You would then pick the fire gensi feat as your level 1 feat option.

 

[Parmandur]

How is saying that your mixed-ancestry character can either be 100% parent A or 100% parent B - with no options in between - not "turning blood quantum"?

the sentence was "turning blood quantum... into a field for rules optimization." By keeping hu radiation fluffy, maybe bringing in Frats, it allows for individuality in the hybrid characters.

Optimizers are going to optimize regardless of what rules character ancestry adheres to. The only way to make them stop would be to eliminate species mechanics from the game entirely, and even then that will only serve to shift more of their focus to other elements of the game system.

I mean, I could see Background taking over Species entirely over time, in terms of mechanics.

 

[Parmandur]

They will never find a way to not offend people.

Sure they can.

Ugh...I missed this one. I am not a fan of moving it to background as I like that background enhanced character backstories. This will make it even more important for optimizers.

The choices of ASI are largely meaningless, but Optimizers will optimize. Optimizing a free-floating attribute bonus thst has nothing to do with Species is better.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

I mean, I could see Background taking over Species entirely over time, in terms of mechanics.

I'm pretty sure this is what will happen eventually, and I hate it.

 

[Parmandur]

I'm pretty sure this is what will happen eventually, and I hate it.

I mean, it is what it is: "Background" allows a lot more customization as a concept over the old "Race" idea ever could.

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

the sentence was "turning blood quantum... into a field for rules optimization." By keeping hu radiation fluffy, maybe bringing in Frats, it allows for individuality in the hybrid characters.

It is always going to be a field for rules optimization. That's the point I'm trying to get at.

Trying to reign in optimizers is a fool's errand. Even with the proposed "pick-a-parent" system, optimizers will identify which species statblock is "superior" for a given optimization purpose and make that the default. The only difference is that they won't have reason to make their characters "half-elves" or "half-orcs" (or any other mixed heritage) anymore, because functionally those options no longer exist as mechanical choices to optimize.

The only thing accomplished by making mixed ancestry purely a roleplaying choice is discouraging anyone who wants their character's ancestry to be expressed in their game mechanics from bothering to play mixed ancestry characters at all. Anyone who wants their choice of mixed ancestry to be reflected in their mechanics now has to decide which fraction of their heritage is the one that the game recognizes as legitimate, and/or spend additional character creation resources (background, skills, feat, etc.) trying to make up the difference.

Your character either gets less of their heritage in their mechanics or it costs them more to get "all" of it, which makes mixed ancestry more "expensive" to play and is thus an incentive to simply play a single ancestry character from the start.

 

[Parmandur]

It is always going to be a field for rules optimization. That's the point I'm trying to get at.

Trying to reign in optimizers is a fool's errand. Even with the proposed "pick-a-parent" system, optimizers will identify which species statblock is "superior" for a given optimization purpose and make that the default. The only difference is that they won't have reason to make their characters "half-elves" or "half-orcs" (or any other mixed heritage) anymore, because functionally those options no longer exist as mechanical choices to optimize.

The only thing accomplished by making mixed ancestry purely a roleplaying choice is discouraging anyone who wants their character's ancestry to be expressed in their game mechanics from bothering to play mixed ancestry characters at all. Anyone who wants their choice of mixed ancestry to be reflected in their mechanics now has to which fraction of their heritage is the one that the game recognizes as legitimate, and/or spend additional character creation resources (background, skills, feat, etc.) trying to make up the difference.

Your character either gets less of their heritage in their mechanics or it costs them more to get "all" of it, which makes mixed ancestry more "expensive" to play and is thus an incentive to simply play a single ancestry character from the start.

Well, yes, instead of "stopping optimizers," this redirects them away from "race mechanics." Soooo..Mission Accomplished?

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

Well, yes, instead of "stopping optimizers," this redirects them away from "race mechanics." Soooo..Mission Accomplished?

At the cost of disincentivizing mixed ancestry characters for everyone who cares about their mechanics, whether they're hardcore optimizers or not.

 

[jmartkdr2]

It is a system I will not use at my table. I will retain the old versions. I also do not see ever having something like a gnome/dragonborn etc. If the combos made sense like lizardman/dragonborn, maybe. Dragonborn in my current campaign world are rare, noble-blooded lizardmen.

The new system is just lazy and seeks to solve a problem that was not plaguing a majority of the player base, although I could be wrong and there was an underlying desire by huge swaths of the players to fix this issue.

And I say lazy, because it is designed to fill a checkbox on DDB for statblock.

I will look over the new information and see if there is anything useful. For instance, none of my players use the Tasha's version. They all prefer to have the old style of set stats.

There's always a set of players wo want to play against type; even if they've never played the game before they want to try the weirdest thing possible. So if half-elves exists, they'll look to play the strangest multiracial combo that the dm doesn't shut down immediately. Dragonborn/aarakokra is a good example, or goliath/gnome, but they probably not orc/kenku because only one of those lays eggs. Most such players will also try to powergame it (flying + fire breath) but a few just want to be weird.

The rules can respond in a few ways:

1. Classic: present a couple of the more obvious options, and leave anything else to homebrew. So half-elves, half-orcs, and say gnome-halflings (half-gnomes?) get a writeup and perhaps dragonborn-kolbolds get used as an example of making your own race in the DMG.

2. Complex: create a big chart of half-race features and let players pick two and add them together. You'll need to include half-race options for every new race added. (for some reason the Rolemaster books are coming to mind)

3. Don't: just don't include any as official ancestry mechanics options. Admit they exist in-universe, give a simple answer ("use whatever stats best reflect your concept") and wash your hands of the consequences of all the weird homebrew that's coming.

Phrasing it that way, I'm pro-Classic. I have no issue with the designers saying "Your unusual idea requires homebrew to use" since they also say "If you have an idea we haven't covered, you can and should homebrew it."