Well, now. There's a difference between a specific activity like a roller coaster, and getting into a store. We all have our limitations, and being angry at the world because of that seems like a recipe for, well, anger and resentment. It's good that stores and such don't require you riding a roller coaster to enter them, and even better that they have escalators and such where necessary. But if the whole point of a leisure activity is to experience the activity itself, I'm not gonna complain about the complexity level—unless the offering bills itself as accessible to all, of course. If playing RPGs were life necessities, I'd worry much more about their complexity. We have simpler RPGs and more complext RPGs, and that's a good thing. I haven't paid much attention to how actively WotC bills D&D's accessibility, but it is the default so I don't doubt that accessibility is a concern of theirs, however well or poorly they've managed to pull it off.
D&D General New Interview with Rob Heinsoo About 4E
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Kaiyanwang
Adventurer
To do that and also have a good balance seems impossible to me without changing the game beyond recognition. See upthread.
MichaelSomething
Legend
Well, I do a record of saying that purging the weak from TTRPGs would make it better for the strong to play how they see fit. The people who would disapprove of that never seen the terrible players that exist in some corners.
So you're saying combine all the rules books in one massively heavy single volume?
That would be one particular way of filtering the player base. "Do you even lift, bro?"
MichaelSomething
Legend
The upside of that would be that the book could be used as a shield against bullets!
Chaltab
Legend
Back on the topic for a moment: another thing to consider is where the complexity lies. For example plenty of games have a low barrier of entry but a high skill ceiling--anyone can play an enjoy a fighting game or a shooter, but there's also a lot of depth and complexity for those who want to dig into it.
Or in a TTRPG example, the game Mutants and Masterminds, where making a character is a lot more complex than 5E, but I still find it way more tolerable to play than 3rd Edition because most of its complexity is front-loaded--that is, the complicated system of powers and traits you use to build your character.
I think the key to this is that D&D can have dials for complexity: do you want to run a game where weapon and armor materials matter, where there are more conditions and different bonus types that have specific rules about if and how they stack, or where Flanking and Morale are considerations? Do you you want to play a complicated class or a simpler one? There doesn't have to be a one size fits all solution, but the game has to be clear about its dials and the level of complexity they add or new players may well be overwhelmed.
Or in a TTRPG example, the game Mutants and Masterminds, where making a character is a lot more complex than 5E, but I still find it way more tolerable to play than 3rd Edition because most of its complexity is front-loaded--that is, the complicated system of powers and traits you use to build your character.
I think the key to this is that D&D can have dials for complexity: do you want to run a game where weapon and armor materials matter, where there are more conditions and different bonus types that have specific rules about if and how they stack, or where Flanking and Morale are considerations? Do you you want to play a complicated class or a simpler one? There doesn't have to be a one size fits all solution, but the game has to be clear about its dials and the level of complexity they add or new players may well be overwhelmed.
Vaalingrade
Legend
Wrong thread.
Chaltab
Legend
No? This is what was being discussed on the previous page before the tangent about how you all like big books and you cannot lie.
Vaalingrade
Legend
Sorry, it was an edit to what I posted, which was in the wrong thread. Sorry for the confusion.
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