D&D General D&D Assumptions Ain't What They Used To Be

[Mind of tempest]

I mean, the game was aimed at 12 year old boys. Talking about how invisibility intersects with tom-peepery isn't much a stretch.

clearly, my past as a 12-year-old boy was not typical.

I just started playing a new game. Whatever works, I guess.


Yet, in 2024, we're still fighting the evil Oni and Naga/Mariliths, which use real-world religious ideas. But they did get rid of phylacteries, so there's some progress.

given oni are normally bad guys in east asian works I doubt they are complaining about them being killed perhaps them being inaccurate,

I do not know if mariliths are a thing outside of dnd but I know naga are complex and a sort of people in some South or south-east asain works

 

[Micah Sweet]

You do need things to fight in a game with such a heavy mechanical emphasis on combat. I suppose you can go the WotC route and make most enemies cultists, undead, constructs, and individual super-villains.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I'm starting to understand why @Snarf Zagyg frequently posts his threads and then walks away and doesn't engage anymore.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Points for Lower Decks!

 

[Alzrius]

But they did get rid of phylacteries, so there's some progress.

As a member of the Jewish community, I don't think that getting rid of liches having phylacteries is progress in the slightest.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I'm starting to understand why @Snarf Zagyg frequently posts his threads and then walks away and doesn't engage anymore.

To reply more substantive to the OP.

I think that the issue with discussing inclusivity, especially as compared to the past, is two-fold.

First, when you bring up examples like the one in the OP (or countless others), people who liked and played those games back then get defensive. Instead of thinking about the issue, they feel like you are "yucking their yum." But you're not! Things were different back then. I mean, if you look at almost any popular culture from the '70s or '80s, it will contain elements that both reflect the times and can seem ... questionable ... at times. That doesn't mean that people were bad or evil back then, just that the cultural mores were different, and that we should be aware of that and that we can do better now!

Second, a lot of people are blind to the issues. When I was growing up, it was common to bike everywhere. I remember it as a time of unfettered freedom. Think of it like Stranger Things (maybe a little earlier time, but same gist). Day or night, I could be on a bike, out somewhere. Anywhere. Sometimes in packs of kids, sometimes alone. It was awesome. It is one of my most treasured childhood memories.

So I was talking to a friend of mine. She grew up in the same place. Same time. And we were discussing biking. And she agreed it was great, but she said that she never, ever, biked alone at night, and wouldn't even bike alone in remote areas. And I was kind of stunned- because, you know, it was safe, right? But she explained that there were older men in some areas that would catcall and harass girls. Middle school girls. And she just felt that lack of safety. Thing is- I never knew that. I had no idea. I just assumed everything was the exact same, because ... why wouldn't it be? But from a young age, her experience was already very different than mine (in a lot of ways, I know, but I'm just pointing this one out).

In other words, people can be blind to certain things because their experience is not universal.

Anyway, to sum up- D&D is awesome. Everyone should be welcome to play. No one should feel uncomfortable.

 

[MGibster]

man people in the past where strange

The past is another country. They do things differently there.

You know, stuff some folks would like to claim are the relatively recent concerns of feckless rabblerousing young folk. The latter letter writer says that if she had known about the baked in sexism she would probably never even tried AD&D. So I am glad fewer people have to grapple with that choice and can feel included.

The big difference is that what was once widely acceptable back in 1982 isn't widely acceptable today. Even in 1939, there were people protesting Gone with the Wind, but overall, in mainstream America, the movie was a smashing success. In the 1980s, I don't remember a lot of people talking about the "problematic" elements of raunchy teen comedies like Revenge of the Nerds. Even the problematic elements they might have talked about back then weren't the same elements that concern us today. But I think the point is that there's always going to be someone pointing out the problem with something even if they're not a mainstream voice.

As a member of the Jewish community, I don't think that getting rid of liches having phylacteries is progress in the slightest.

They're still phylacteries in my heart. Or is my heart still in a phylactery?

Anyway, to sum up- D&D is awesome. Everyone should be welcome to play. No one should feel uncomfortable.

Except for Brad. He knows why.

 

[jayoungr]

In the 1980s, I don't remember a lot of people talking about the "problematic" elements of raunchy teen comedies like Revenge of the Nerds. Even the problematic elements they might have talked about back then weren't the same elements that concern us today. But I think the point is that there's always going to be someone pointing out the problem with something even if they're not a mainstream voice.

Yes and no. The mining of disposable pop entertainment for cultural critique has become an exponentially more routine pastime in the 21st century than it was in the 20th. That sort of thing happened, but pop culture wasn't given the cultural weight that it has now.

 

[Charlaquin]

24, we're still fighting the evil Oni and Naga/Mariliths, which use real-world religious ideas. But they did get rid of phylacteries, so there's some progress.

They did? I must have missed that. Did they just change the name, or do liches have some other means of maintaining their immortality now?

 

[Twiggly the Gnome]

As a member of the Jewish community, I don't think that getting rid of liches having phylacteries is progress in the slightest.

The one good argument I heard for this is that artists would check secular sources on what a phylactery should look like and would get references to tefillin, so instead of an amulet they'd draw them as little leather boxes with straps.