D&D General Build the "Definitive Pantheon"

can you take this discussion to another thread?
I have said what I wanted to say. People have heard me and mostly understand what I am saying.

D&D needs to be inclusive of other cultures − and this obviously includes the religions of those other cultures.

The core rules matter most.
 

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okay, but god means something rather different to others. The difference between a shamanic spiritual specialist and a priest-based spiritual specialist seems like different traditions with an equivalent doctorate or masters of two different martial arts.

as god is flexible in the language of this forum and most of academia for that matter.

you could always make vecna will to be the one to break peoples fates as people are willing to do lots of thing to get out of their depressing lot in life, plus it would tie into him becoming a god by force.

Also, love and lust seem rather unrelated love and hate are more a pair.
Love is the positive expression of tender care for others. Lust is the negative expression of that same thing: attachment, grasping, needing, codependency, etc., etc. This Sehanine embodies both the good and the bad of love, much as Aphrodite did in Greek myth.
 

Another thing I like doing with some gods in the pantheon is to give them diametrically opposed areas of control so I have a goddess of medicine and healing who is also the goddess of disease, poisons, and assassin. She has a hand of light that can heal any ailment, and a hand of darkness which can inflict any ailment. When she reaches down to place her hand on your brow, pray you receive the former rather than the latter.

In some of the faiths of my world, she is worshipped almost exclusively as one or the other. Divine scholars argue if she will one day split into two separate deities each opposing the other.
 
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Another thing I like doing with some gods in the pantheon is to give them diametrically opposed areas of control so I have a goddess of medicine and healing who is also the goddess of disease, poisons, and assassin. She has a hand of light that can heal any ailment, and a hand of darkness which can inflict any ailment. When she reaches down to place her hand on your brow, pray you receive the former rather than the latter.

In some of the faiths of my world, she is worshipped almoat exclusively as on or the other. Divine scholars argue if she will one day split into two separate deities each opposing the other.

I've seen death gods kind of similar to that.
 

But yes, I would personally rearrange a lot of these. Some are already interesting (e.g. I like Athena as-is, hence why I like Erathis), but most of the other female deities are far too one-note for my preference. For example, I think it would be very interesting to combine, say, Hera and Hades: this is a culture where you don't say "til death do us part," marriage is eternal because the goddess of marriage is also the goddess of the afterlife. Imagine, the Raven Queen as goddess of marriage--how much different weddings and funerals would be in that kind of culture!
In Book of the Righteous, the Goddess of Nobility and Leadership is married to the God of Law, Justice, the Dead, and the Underworld. It's said that while Maal may judge the dead, it's his wife Naryne who governs them. They may be the only "happily married" couple in the entire pantheon.

You could also do as Pathfinder does. Pharasma is not only the goddess of death but also of childbirth.

I agree that most D&D gods are pretty one-dimensional. For example, we had talked about warrior storm gods earlier in this thread. Very often many of these warrior storm gods are also gods of agriculture and (male) fertility. Fertility deities are very common in real life, but in D&D style pantheons, they are pretty absent, usually in favor of a more generic deity of love.

On the other hand, my favorite fantasy pantheon is Guild Wars' true gods, which has only five. Balthazar, god of war, fire and smiths; Dwayna, goddess of air, life, and magic (and nobility); Grenth, god of death and justice; Lyssa, goddess of truth, beauty, and illusions, and Melandru, goddess of earth and nature. It's pretty easy to cover most fantasy archetypes with this list. (aside from racial deities and evil powers.)
Technically, GW1 eventually led to the ascension of a (replacement) sixth, Kormir, who had previously been human but, through deed and through the assistance of the other five, replaced the previous (imprisoned) sixth god, Abbadon. In the process, she inverted his core domain; he was the God of Secrets, while she became the Goddess of Truth.
Yeah, Lyssa was never the goddess of truth. This is not to mention that we know of the existence of other gods. For example, Menzies was Balthazar's brother, and Balthazar supposedly came into Tyria carrying his father's head. There is also Dhuum, the unkillable actual god of death. Grenth could only imprison him in the Underworld.

And while we always knew that Grenth's mother was Dwayna, we also learned in Guild Wars 2 that his father was a mortal sculpter, who is strongly implied to be Malchor the Sculpter. Malchor created their most popular statues of the gods and capturing their appearance; However, he became blinded by the radiance of the gods, finishing Dwayna's sculpture last while blind. He fell in love with Dwayna. Malchor unable to bear the parting of Dwayna ultimately threw himself into the ocean. The fact that Grenth had a mortal father is one of the secrets of Grenth's priesthood.

It's possible that the other deities were also at one point mortals, but the mystery of the gods and their divine essences has not been explored too much in Guild Wars 2. Guild Wars 2, sadly, seems keen on erasing the legacy of the gods, depicting a lot of lore that we had in Guild Wars 1 as human propaganda and the gods that came to Tyria as a nuissance who threatened the balance of the world. Most non-humans in Tyria have a pretty cynical view of the human gods.

Also fun fact, the original five gods of Guild Wars 1 were partially based, much like Guild Wars 1 itself, on Magic the Gathering.
  • White: Dwayna
  • Green: Melandru
  • Red: Balthazar
  • Black: Grenth
  • Blue: Lyssa

All that said, as much as I dislike Angry DM, he had an interesting article about creating your pantheon. He basically said that many players will not be able or often bother to memorize or care about a Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk size collection of pantheons that involve dozens upon dozens or more deities. He argued that five is a manageable amount for most players and their attention spans to your worldbuilding, and then he did much like the above and said that the five colors of Magic the Gathering provide a solid foundation. I think that if you had to go for more, I would probably go either Ravnica (ten gods for the ten dual-colors) or Theros (fifteen gods for the five basic colors plus ten dual-colors).
 

I think the DMG's basic outline for a basic pantheon was okay. Just add the Arcane god, and a Law/Chaos pair and missing opposite.

Arcana
City
Darkness
Death
Knowledge
Life
Light
Nature
Peace
Secrets
Strength
Tempest
Trickery
War

And fill
 

The cool thing about the colours of magic is, if you read up on each colour, that each colour has plenty of room for plenty of gods. You could likely get 5 or more gods out of each colour before needing to look at dual colours.
 
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It is like referring to a Muslim imam as if a "priest". It is complicated, but understandably can be annoying.
I am aware they are different but I am using priests like how anyone who worked with metal used to be a type of smith it's for function so the conversation can get to the interesting stuff, it is more shorthand.

I would like a way for animism to be a proper thing in dnd even if only so druids get to feel like they are doing something beyond being hippies with a fursona.

I use god loosely as both of your supplied definitions would make no sense to me, god are not invoked or worshipped they are things you appease as the idea of benevolent gods makes no sense to me but I digress.

what would you perceive the roles of a pantheon of greater spiritual entities to be then so we can make cooler pantheons?
Love is the positive expression of tender care for others. Lust is the negative expression of that same thing: attachment, grasping, needing, codependency, etc., etc. This Sehanine embodies both the good and the bad of love, much as Aphrodite did in Greek myth.
lust is more based on the senses than caring, hate is a negative form of caring hence why hatedom can form a reverse polarity fandom.
you can lust over any experice just people seem to be hardwired to care about some more than others.
bad love is far stranger the lust it is more about yourself than the other from my studies into the matter.
 

I think the DMG's basic outline for a basic pantheon was okay. Just add the Arcane god, and a Law/Chaos pair and missing opposite.

Arcana
City
Darkness
Death
Knowledge
Life
Light
Nature
Peace
Secrets
Strength
Tempest
Trickery
War

And fill
we could try voting them as catagroies or something?
I think other catagories would get added in based on what else is important or relivant to them, a god of the cold and winter is rather important to those near frozen lands or a culture who uses psionics have a psion god.
The cool thing about the colours of magic is, if you read up on each colour, that each colour has plenty of room for plenty of gods. You could likely get 5 or more gods out of each colour before needing to look at dual colours.
not to mention you can get down to the shards and wedges for even more exacting options
 


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