D&D 5E Does anyone play 5e Perception rules as written?

[Kobold Stew]

So this is great: thank you all.

I want to know more:

• does playing RAW decrease the overall importance of Perception as "the best skill in the game"?
• if you've been following the playtest, do you think that PHB 2024 will make things easier or harder to see?

 

[Minigiant]

What's your point?

You don't need to make a perception check to target enemies in dim light if they are fighting because if they are fighting, they are not hiding (rogue and goblin bonus actions notwithstanding).

This is where we get back to.running Perception by RAW: perception checks are to spot hidden things and people. You don't need them under normal circumstances.

My point is if an all darkvision party walk around with no light sources, everything outside their darkvision range is practically invisible to them.

So a bunch of orcs can go from invisible to in your face with no chance to see them.

A bunch of goblin archers can wildly shoot in your direction and you'd be blind to them.

Blinded creatures cannot make Perception checks based on sight

 

[ECMO3]

One thing that seems to be missed in this discussion is that players with darkvision have bright light conditions in dim light.

If you play strict RAW. Being able to make dim light bright light for you is far from useless.

 

[Reynard]

My point is if an all darkvision party walk around with no light sources, everything outside their darkvision range is practically invisible to them.

So a bunch of orcs can go from invisible to in your face with no chance to see them.

A bunch of goblin archers can wildly shoot in your direction and you'd be blind to them.

Blinded creatures cannot make Perception checks based on sight

That doesn't make any sense with you initial assertion that darkvision was about melee.

I agree that darkvision monsters would use their darkvision advantage to shoot poor PCs who have to carry a light because there's a human in the party.

 

[ezo]

So this is great: thank you all.

I want to know more:

• does playing RAW decrease the overall importance of Perception as "the best skill in the game"?
• if you've been following the playtest, do you think that PHB 2024 will make things easier or harder to see?

Yes. Typically we have one, maybe two PCs, with perception proficiency. Athletics, Stealth, Survival, Arcana, and others are more commonly valued. Perception has its uses, certainly, but no more or less than many other skills.

The ones that continue to see little value are History and Religion. However, we've made "creature lore" for humanoids and giants part of History, and Religion covers celestials, fiends, and the undead. Arcana covers aberrations, constructs, dragons, fey, and monstrosities; Nature covers beasts, elementals, oozes, and plants.

Performance sees little use, too.

---

I haven't been following the playtests and have no interest in 2024 really. D&D just isn't heading in the direction I like with it.

 

[Minigiant]

That doesn't make any sense with you initial assertion that darkvision was about melee.

I agree that darkvision monsters would use their darkvision advantage to shoot poor PCs who have to carry a light because there's a human in the party.

Let me explain it simpler.

• Most Darkness monsters are melee.
• Groups without light sources but with darkvision cannot see targets in darkness outside their darkvision range.
• Groups without light sources but with darkvision have -5 to passive perception in dim light inside their darkvision range.
• Melee Darkness monsters who are faster than a creatures darkvision range or can dash as a bonus action can easily get into melee without being shoot.
• Melee Darkness monsters who have got Dex or trained in Stealth can sneak up on their targets much easier
• No Torches = RAW 75% of your fights are ambushes and you are surprised even with darkvision
• No Torches = Melee monster eating good

 

[Shiroiken]

My group runs Perception by the book and it's never been a problem. There's always at least 1 PC without darkvision, so the party always has a light source. Even in a recent campaign when we had everyone with it, we still kept using a light source normally.

I do play by RAW (even going as far as to use passive Perception as a "floor" for Perception checks)

Technically the bolded part isn't RAW, but a carryover from 4E. It is Jeremy Crawfords' interpretation, but the books never actually detail how to use Passive Checks.

I use the Mike Mearls method, where the DM rolls against the Passive Score, using 1d20+DC-11 when no modifier is given. It avoids the problem of comparing static scores against each other (meaning the DM determines success/failure during the adventure writing stage) and prevents characters with high Passive scores from automatically succeeding every time (even though they will succeed most of the time).

 

[Distracted DM]

I run D&D every week at our store, normally for beginners, and I always play RAW. It takes explaining every single time as to why characters with Darkvision will still likely want a light source. It takes further explaining as to why lanterns are better than torches. I am interested in seeing the new rules, which will likely also confuse players.

I too use RAW, i say that lanterns can be worn on belts.. but I'm pretty sure that I got that from a video game or something and not a rule- regardless, it doesn't matter because no one buys a lantern.

 

[O-Castitatis-Lilium]

I don't play them as written, no. what's the fun of having darkvision if you can't use it in a fun way, well in my opinion anyways. I mean, sure, my players can't see in the dark completely, they still follow the dim is bright and dark is dim, but I don't do the disadvantage roll. So people still need the torches to see. I figure any creature that has these types of things have evolved them in order to survive. So why would something evolve the vision, something they are going to need and rely on, with any form of disadvantage? I mean humans, granted this is the average, are born with perfect vision. Not all humans are born to need glasses or with nearsight and/or farsight. Hawks and that can see farther and better than humans, sure, but they aren't born with anything that impedes their vision. So why would there be a impediment on darkvision? I mean, this is just my theory on why I don't use the disadvantage roll with it; that and I think it's far more fun for my players to run it like that lol.

 

[overgeeked]

I have. It resulted in the players yelling at me for doing it wrong. I pointed out the rules in the book and they didn't care. It was still wrong. Somehow. After that I started listing the RAW for perception as a house rule. That weeded out quite a few players. They felt the need to get mad and tell me about it.