D&D (2024) 2024 Player's Handbook reveal: "New Cleric"

[Stalker0]

If you wanted to improve the old DI ability without a complete change out, the simplest change would be to remove the action cost. Just make it a free action.

That way when it doesn't work (the vast majority of the time), then its no harm no foul. And a cleric in an intense situation never feels like he has to choose between an action that might not work but still does something to help, or an action with a 10% chance to save the day.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Fireball does as much as flame stike, 4 levels earlier.

I'm fine with clerics cantips being a bit stronger.

That could easily be a statement that fireball needs to be toned down. WotC's reasoning for not doing so always struck me as ridiculous and a marketing gimmick.

 

[mellored]

That could easily be a statement that fireball needs to be toned down. WotC's reasoning for not doing so always struck me as ridiculous and a marketing gimmick.

Well the gap could certainly be narrowed a bit.

But I still expect wizard spells to do more damage than cleric ones. So clerics having a stronger cantrip isn't a big deal.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

Fireball does as much as flame stike, 4 levels earlier.

I'm fine with clerics cantips being a bit stronger.

They stated somewhere that Flame Strike was going to do more damage.

 

[Remathilis]

I don't think anyone is disputing that the new version isn't, overall, a power upgrade on account of being reliable even if the ceiling on the ability is lowered. But by making it reliable, it becomes part of the kit. It is no longer miraculous. No-one is going to tell stories about that time Brianna the Barbarian got herself killed in battle but Cecil the Cleric used Divine Intervention for a raise dead spell to bring her back without spending diamonds. I mean, of course he did.

But if a party member fell in battle in 2014 and the cleric called for a successful divine intervention to bring them back mid-battle... I, for one, would bring them back with full hit points and some form of deity-appropriate buff for the duration of the combat. Since the ability has such a low chance of success, it should pack a mighty punch when it does work.

People tell tales of the one time in a hundred it mattered. They don't tell of all the times the cleric wasted a whole round doing nothing on a 1 in 10 chance "something good" will happen.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Well the gap could certainly be narrowed a bit.

But I still expect wizard spells to do more damage than cleric ones. So clerics having a stronger cantrip isn't a big deal.

Fair enough, but I'd think in that case you'd want to make it clear in the books that spells of a given level are not intended to be equivalent in power (because they wouldn't be), which is counter-intuitive, since all full casters gain access to the same levels of spells at the same character levels.

 

[Micah Sweet]

They stated somewhere that Flame Strike was going to do more damage.

I would rather that Fireball was the same power as other 3rd level spells.

 

[Micah Sweet]

People tell tales of the one time in a hundred it mattered. They don't tell of all the times the cleric wasted a whole round doing nothing on a 1 in 10 chance "something good" will happen.

That's the way things work. You remember the big stuff (good and bad). Trying to make everything good all the time just makes it all less memorable IMO.

 

[mellored]

They stated somewhere that Flame Strike was going to do more damage.

I would rather that Fireball was the same power as other 3rd level spells.

Flame stike is particularly weak. It's the same damage as Synaptic Static, but half the radius and no side effects.

Boosting it by 2d6 damage won't make fireball sad.
Or maybe make it bigger but not hurt allies.

 

[Remathilis]

That's the way things work. You remember the big stuff (good and bad). Trying to make everything good all the time just makes it all less memorable IMO.

The problem is you are gambling on a very low chance of awesome when you could be doing something useful. Say you needed gas, forgot your wallet, and I gave you $10. You could buy $10 in gas to get you home to get your wallet, or you could buy $10 in lottery tickets and hope you win the big prize which can afford all the gas you'll need for a while. One of those is a far better use of that $10.00.

Now if you have nothing to lose (you are out of spells, running isn't an option and death is imminent.) Maybe that gamble is worth it. Likewise if wasting an action isn't a loss (such as out of combat) the price is negligible. But the grand value is pulling victory out of the jaws of defeat and with such a high cost with such a low chance of success, you're probably better off casting a cantrip than using DI. Your chance to hit is more likely better and you can influence the d20 roll with a lot of effects.