D&D (2024) D&D 2024 Rules Oddities (Kibbles’ Collected Complaints)

Yes it is. After a point however the level of linguistic sophistry needed to split hairs fine enough ultimately detracts credibility from the ruling.

I don't think we are at that point here, especially since there was much debate on whether this was even possible IRL before I pointed out that it was also against RAW.

I also do not believe it is RAI. I don't think the creators of 5E intended to be able to drag a creature 120 feet per turn on a horse or more that that even on a summoned steed. I obviously have nothing to back that up, but it is my feeling.

Yes and no. Doing it while mounted is only one of the many obvious ways that cheese grater tactic are completely broken in the 2024 ruleset.

I would agree. The whole thing is broken in 2024. Doing it while mounted is largely the one way it is allegedly broken in the 2104 5E ruleset though and that is what started this whole debate.

The reason the horse was brought into the discussion was to show that the Monk doing it was not that bad in 2024 ... or not any worse than 5E.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

not for me to say, make the playtest packages bigger if you have more changes than you are able to present, that could solve it too.

Oh yeah, because we didn't all groan at the 60 page playtest document we got, getting a 150 page document would have been so much better.

What isn’t a solution is withholding half of the changes altogether and not showing the last iteration(s) of the other half.

Why not? Why is WoTC required to show you everything they are working on?

the playtest was not a failure because it did not yield the results I wanted, it was a failure because I have no confidence it yielded the results the majority actually wanted.

And you have polled the larger community of a million plus people, who haven't even gotten access to the book yet, to prove that? Or is it just a gut feeling?

we discussed the flaws in the parts we are aware of on this forum. I do not need to see every piece to understand that the part we are aware of is flawed, the remaining parts cannot fix those flaws

You don't need to fully understand the process to know that the end result was only flawed because the process was flawed and that it would be easy for you to fix it? Go talk to a programmer some time about how easy it is to declare fixes for a system you have no knowledge of.
 

my problem is more the distance the dragged person is from the horse, they are right next to it and maybe 1 foot wide. Having them in the thorns and the horse and rider stay out of it is impossible

No it isn't. Because you don't need to have the creature within your space to grapple and drag them.
 

Oh yeah, because we didn't all groan at the 60 page playtest document we got, getting a 150 page document would have been so much better
first of all I am not sure it would make such a huge difference, and second it still is the better alternative to not seeing the changes at all…

Why not? Why is WoTC required to show you everything they are working on?
they are not required to do anything, but it would make for a better playtest

And you have polled the larger community of a million plus people, who haven't even gotten access to the book yet, to prove that? Or is it just a gut feeling?
I do not need to poll the people to understand that WotC’s polling methodology is flawed, and on top of that they even said themselves that they sometimes ignored something meeting the threshold and went a different direction instead anyway

You don't need to fully understand the process to know that the end result was only flawed because the process was flawed and that it would be easy for you to fix it?
improve sure, completely fix, for that I will have to see the other parts too

Go talk to a programmer some time about how easy it is to declare fixes for a system you have no knowledge of.
I am one, so I can tell you how easy that is ;)

Fortunately that is not what I claimed though, I said I can tell that it is flawed from the parts I do see…
 



Fey Wanderer makes for a great primary spell caster. I've played two Rangers to high level - Lena a 17th level Goblin Ranger16/Rogue1 who had an 8 strength and 16 Dex at games end and Chromescale a 20th level Ranger who had an 8 and 14 respectively.

With a Fey Wanderer subclass and Tasha's Primal ability you get a ton of castings, almost on par with a full caster. Add a bunch of spells through feats and you have a great recipe for a controller. Both of the characters above took Shadow Touched (Cause Fear), Fey Touched (Lena got Hex, Chromsescale got Dissonant Whispers), and Telepathic. Chromescale also took the Dragonfear feat.

So, just so we are clear here. You are calling this a bad design, because they took out an optional feature from a 2020 book. A feature that was not part of the base class design, and didn't even exist until six years after the ranger had been in the 2014 game. A feature which gave you one casting of: speak with animals; beast sense; speak with plants; locate creature; commune with nature.

I want to be clear on what your complaint is that is causing the ranger to be tied to a specific niche and archetype. Because Fey Wanderer is the same, you can still get spells through feats, Shadow Touched and Fey Touched are in the PHB untouched, Telepathic is in the PHB untouched. Dragonfear is not, but is still a completely legitimate feat to take.

So, literally the only difference, is the lack of the Primal Awareness spells. Which I want to be clear on, because...

At high level they very rarely used weapons. They were all about control with Spike Growth, Dissonant Whispers, upcast Cause Fear and spamming concentration-free Summon Mirthful Fey. Against enemies that could be frightened, these were the best two control builds I have ever played, and I've played Wizards to 20th level. The combination of Summonning multiple Mirthful Fey, Beguiling Twist and Cause Fear (or Dragonfear feat) is freaking awesome.

I don't think Chromescale ever made a weapon attack after 15th level. Lena did, but not often and usually in clean up mode. Once near games end, she did go to town TWF with daggers against an enemy caster in an anti-magic shell and decimated him.

None of this is affected by that change. All of this is 100% repeatable with the Ranger in the PHB as it exists right now.

Lena was actually good in melee. She had a belt of Giant Strength, a Dragon Tooth dagger, 1d6 sneak attack, 1d6 Dreadful Strikes, and 1d8 Favored Foe if she was not concentrating, with advantage almost on demand from Nature's Viel. So her melee damage was not bad if she wanted to go into melee. It is just it was a lot more fun, and usually more effective, for her to control enemies. Lena was the most fun character I ever played bar none. The DM I played with was asked at a party in 2022 who was his favorite PC of the 20+ he had seen in our group until that time, and he named Lena as his favorite too.

Interesting. You likely still have Belts of Giant Strength, sneak attack, dreadful strikes, Nature's Veil.... the only difference between the character you are describing and the one in the 2024 PHB is that you used Favored Foe... which is essentially a weaker Hunter's Mark. See, with Favored Foe you were concentrating to get a +1d8 to damage. With a free casting of Hunter's mark and dual-wielding daggers, your character could get a +3d6 (remember Nick)

So, your complaint here is that a full caster ranger, can't use a non-spell ability that requires concentration to increase their weapon damage by less than the new ranger can? Oh, and this version likely will have advantage on all of those attacks too, without needing Nature's Veil bonus action.

Is it locking them into a niche just because it is so much better than what they had before, it is an actual viable option? Which, the mechanical power didn't matter because you already said the fun part was the rest of it. So.... are you really mourning the loss of a single casting of Speak with PLants that much?

Getting rid of abilities that enable that and making the class more martial focused takes away this kind of creativity.

Part of this too is Hunters Mark is just such a crappy spell both in terms of flavor and mechanics. If they gave us Hex instead I would be much happier.

Well... that's just nonsense. They lost a single optional feature from a splat book. And just because you would be happy with Hex doesn't suddenly mean that they are locking the ranger out of a completely possible playstyle by using Hunter's Mark instead.
 

you kinda have to hold on to them however, and unless you have really long arms, that is what it boils down to

So... grappling in DnD doesn't work at all? Because every single enemy I've ever grappled was 5 ft away from me. And still, even if there is only a foot of distance between the horse and the creature being grappled.... they are still one foot away from the damaging spikes, so they STILL aren't taking the damage.
 

first of all I am not sure it would make such a huge difference, and second it still is the better alternative to not seeing the changes at all…

they are not required to do anything, but it would make for a better playtest

DO you have, like, evidence of that? OR is that just your assertion because you think if you could have seen everything, you could have told WoTC to avoid those things and they would have been forced to make the game in your image?

I do not need to poll the people to understand that WotC’s polling methodology is flawed, and on top of that they even said themselves that they sometimes ignored something meeting the threshold and went a different direction instead anyway

So... no. YOu have no idea then if the larger community is unhappy with the 2024 PHB. You just are assured WoTC was wrong, and that the designers designing made worse decisions for that larger community than you would have.

improve sure, completely fix, for that I will have to see the other parts too


I am one, so I can tell you how easy that is ;)

Fortunately that is not what I claimed though, I said I can tell that it is flawed from the parts I do see…

I'm sure that you, a non-game designer, could easily fix the game design process. Just like I, a non-software engineer, could easily fix the software engineering process, because I can tell just looking at the end product of some of these software companies that their products are fundamentally flawed and if they were just good at their jobs, then it wouldn't be like that.
 

So... grappling in DnD doesn't work at all? Because every single enemy I've ever grappled was 5 ft away from me. And still, even if there is only a foot of distance between the horse and the creature being grappled.... they are still one foot away from the damaging spikes, so they STILL aren't taking the damage.
grappling works, I am not sure the grating idea works though
 

Remove ads

Top