D&D (2024) Its Ironic That Fire Goliaths Make Better Celestial Warlocks Then Aasimar Do

[Staffan]

A friend of mine had a similar issue with the Aasimar and the Celestial Bloodline in PF1. However, his problem with the race and the sorcerer bloodline wasn't a redundancy issue. It was over the fact that any sorcerer of this bloodline became more celestial than an Aasimar, an actual descendant of the celestial.

I don't really see an issue with that. An aasimar is a person with some celestial heritage in the family tree, or that was born on an upper plane, or something like that. There's a bit of heavenly power there, but not all that much. A celestial bloodline sorcerer, on the other hand, is someone who might start out with less obvious descent from their heavenly ancestors, but they nurture that connection and feed it, making it grow far stronger than someone who relies on their birthright but focuses their attention elsewhere.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Even if you are right the solution should be simple and easy: to create a racial substitution level.

For example replacing with other catrip or a feat. Or the catrip light would enjoy a free metamagic feat.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

I don't really see an issue with that. An aasimar is a person with some celestial heritage in the family tree, or that was born on an upper plane, or something like that. There's a bit of heavenly power there, but not all that much. A celestial bloodline sorcerer, on the other hand, is someone who might start out with less obvious descent from their heavenly ancestors, but they nurture that connection and feed it, making it grow far stronger than someone who relies on their birthright but focuses their attention elsewhere.

The problem is is that picking thematically sensible combos should not be penalized with redundancies. Double Resistance should become immunity, substitute cantrip options should be available, etc..., it's a feel bad for alot of folks.

 

[Mistwell]

It's a noted issue with many thematic combos.

A dragonborn draconic sorcerer should never pick the same color for species and class. You get the same elemental resistance.

A triton makes a bad sea druid/kraken warlock because they get water breathing and a swim speed twice.

A reborn warlock should not take the undead patron since they both give you the ability to not eat, sleep, or drink.

Just to name a few.

The issue comes from when you get the same feature twice, you don't get something different and/or they don't stack. Not sure how you fix that, but it creates a perverse incentive to ignore thematic combos and opt for mismatched combos instead.

Most of these are mostly flavor anyway and not the meaningful mechanical benefits of those species though. For example, you had issues with eating sleeping and drinking? You're going to change what subclass you take, or species you pick, because the species or subclass needs a bump to balance it out in replacing a duplicate ability to not eat, drink or sleep?

So far I have not see one of these issues be named where it was the reason you'd pick that species to begin with. It's been all borderline situational abilities or mostly flavor abilities.

 

[Staffan]

The problem is is that picking thematically sensible combos should not be penalized with redundancies. Double Resistance should become immunity, substitute cantrip options should be available, etc..., it's a feel bad for alot of folks.

That's a different issue. The issue I was responding to was "That guy's Celestial-bloodline Sorcerer has more Celestial-themed stuff going on than my Aasimar."

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

The problem is is that picking thematically sensible combos should not be penalized with redundancies. Double Resistance should become immunity, substitute cantrip options should be available, etc..., it's a feel bad for alot of folks.

So ... I can't tell other people how to feel, or how to play D&D (YET!), but I don't understand that.

I don't find the Aasimar / Celestial Warlock to be thematically sensible. Warlocks serve entities that aren't gods; it's more of a master/apprentice relationship.

And while I understand that there are those that would like to "double up" on powers, I've always thought that Warlocks are those that make pacts to get access to abilities and features and knowledge that are otherwise forbidden to them. To me (and not to you) an Aasimar that makes a Pact with a Celestial would be like a Shoggoth that makes a Pact with a Great Old One ... deeply confusing.

 

[TravDoc42]

It would be even more ironic if tieflings made better Celestial warlocks than aasimar

 

[pukunui]

So far I have not see one of these issues be named where it was the reason you'd pick that species to begin with. It's been all borderline situational abilities or mostly flavor abilities.

I’ve only ever done that once - choosing warforged for my Descent into Avernus PC so I wouldn’t have to worry about eating and drinking in Hell!

 

[Henadic Theologian]

It would be even more ironic if tieflings made better Celestial warlocks than aasimar

It's not ironic, it's bad design.

 

[Mistwell]

It's not ironic, it's bad design.

It's not because all of the abilities named are fringe tertiary ones. You're not designing the species to have natural classes due to the tertiary minor abilities, you're looking at their main core abilities and none of them are conflicting so far. If you disagree, name a core species ability which is in conflict with a natural class/sub-class match.