D&D (2024) Its Ironic That Fire Goliaths Make Better Celestial Warlocks Then Aasimar Do

[Snarf Zagyg]

It's the same flavor being repeated. Nobody is picking a species for the light cantrip,

I agree, but then again ...

 

[Remathilis]

Man I just went through every single aspect of a Aasimar Celestial Warlock vs a Tiefling Celestial Warlock because the claim was made the Tiefling would be better for not being redundant, and it turned out to be wrong. So instead of replying to that you do this sealioning thing where you ignore that and toss out yet more homework for me to do to prove your point?

No, how about you lay out THE ENTIRE THING. Not just those two in isolation, but do what I did laying out the entire comparison with the class abilities and see where it all synergizes or becomes redundant. Because in the prior example it turned out the Tiefling seemed to get more but all their attack cantrips were redundant with Eldritch Blast. And that was only obvious once the whole thing was laid out.

I gave four examples in my original post: dragonborn draconic sorcerer, triton fathomless warlock, reborn undeath warlock and aasimar celestial warlock. You grabbed one example, made some "this really doesn't matter" dismissals and declared yourself the winner.

Your point is that they are ribbon abilities that don't change the power level of the character if you miss out on it. That the light cantrip and radiant damage aren't worth much so it's ok if they get nothing for those features. If that's true, what would happen if you gave humans the light cantrip and radiant resistance for free? Or water breathing and a swim speed? Or not having to eat, drink and breathe? They're just ribbons, surely it wouldn't impact play balance. Or maybe just cut those abilities from the class: no resistances, cantrips or proficiencies from your subclass. That shouldn't weaken them, right?

If you're not willing to give those features to just anyone without cost or remove them from everyone without compensation, then you're admitting they have value and that you are giving up value when you get them twice and get nothing from the second instance.

So I re-ask my question: why would I give up having two resistances for only one in the name of flavor?

 

[Mistwell]

I gave four examples in my original post: dragonborn draconic sorcerer, triton fathomless warlock, reborn undeath warlock and aasimar celestial warlock. You grabbed one example, made some "this really doesn't matter" dismissals and declared yourself the winner.

I didn't grab it from you. Note I was replying to others at that point. I didn't cherry pick at all. I didn't even know what conclusion I was going to come to once I laid out a whole comparison.

I am betting the same would be found with those, but maybe not.

Your point is that they are ribbon abilities that don't change the power level of the character if you miss out on it. That the light cantrip and radiant damage aren't worth much so it's ok if they get nothing for those features. If that's true, what would happen if you gave humans the light cantrip and radiant resistance for free?

I don't think people would pick human more if it had those things.

Or water breathing and a swim speed?

Same. Both are too situational.

Or not having to eat, drink and breathe?

I definitely think nobody picks a species for that. I am playing in two campaigns with species that have that and it's come up...never. Not one single time.

They're just ribbons, surely it wouldn't impact play balance.

Yes, none of those things have impacted play balance.

Or maybe just cut those abilities from the class: no resistances, cantrips or proficiencies from your subclass. That shouldn't weaken them, right?

I don't think it weakens their power in any meaningful sense but I think there is high value to flavor for species. It feels nice to have those things, even if you're not going to use them, because it reinforces a sense of what the species is like and where it came from. And reinforcing that flavor with a sub-class with the same sorts of abilities is a bonus, not a bad thing,

If you're not willing to give those features to just anyone without cost or remove them from everyone without compensation, then you're admitting they have value and that you are giving up value when you get them twice and get nothing from the second instance.

I guess you were expecting different answers to the above.

So I re-ask my question: why would I give up having two resistances for only one in the name of flavor?

And I return to my first response: lay out the entire thing between the two species in question and the sub-class and let's see.

 

[CreamCloud0]

i'm of the opinion that a thematic combination should be rewarded by it's focus just as much as a unintuitive combination is rewarded through it's diversity, these sorts of passive losses through redundancy are bad design IMO.