D&D (2024) Its Ironic That Fire Goliaths Make Better Celestial Warlocks Then Aasimar Do

[Crimson Longinus]

Wait, some species are better choices for some classes! But this cannot be! After all, several people here told me that we must get rid of ASIs being tied to species so that that this no longer would be the case, so now that we have done that and tied ASIs to backgrounds instead this surely can no longer be happening!

 

[Staffan]

Wait, some species are better choices for some classes! But this cannot be! After all, several people here told me that we must get rid of ASIs being tied to species so that that this no longer would be the case, so now that we have done that and tied ASIs to backgrounds instead this surely can no longer be happening!

The main reason for getting rid of species-based ability bonuses is that there's a certain aroma connected to the statement "(half-)orcs are strong and dumb and thus best suited for war and manual labor, and not for things that require thinking", and that aroma is not a good one.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

It's not because all of the abilities named are fringe tertiary ones. You're not designing the species to have natural classes due to the tertiary minor abilities, you're looking at their main core abilities and none of them are conflicting so far. If you disagree, name a core species ability which is in conflict with a natural class/sub-class match.

Some have already been mentioned, such as the Triton and certain subclasses, Aasimar and Celestial Warlock, etc...

It doesn't matter if it's tertiary thing (and Resistance to damage and getting spells are never tertiary) it's easily avoided, this thread solved it in like 2 minutes flat.

Heck even the 2014 PHB avoided this issue with skills.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

The main reason for getting rid of species-based ability bonuses is that there's a certain aroma connected to the statement "(half-)orcs are strong and dumb and thus best suited for war and manual labor, and not for things that require thinking", and that aroma is not a good one.

But if that strength is expressed via powerful build feature instead then that's fine?

 

[mellored]

But if that strength is expressed via powerful build feature instead then that's fine?

It's dampened a lot. Especially since it only lets you escape grapples.

IMO, the biggest reason is so you can much more easily play a goliath wizard. Including using their abilities when you hit with a firebolt.

 

[Mistwell]

Some have already been mentioned, such as the Triton and certain subclasses, Aasimar and Celestial Warlock, etc...

I responded to both. Neither had a core ability in conflict with a sub class, both were minor mostly flavor abilities and their core abilities were not duplicated at all. I even detailed that above.

It doesn't matter if it's tertiary thing (and Resistance to damage and getting spells are never tertiary)

Yes they are. Radiant damage done by monsters is very rare. Resistance to it isn't going to come up most games. It's tertiary. Now resistance to necrotic damage, that will come up far more often. So will the need to fly, or have an aura that causes damage or fear. THAT is why you want Aasimar for your Celestial Warlock.

it's easily avoided, this thread solved it in like 2 minutes flat.

Heck even the 2014 PHB avoided this issue with skills.

Avoid something fairly meaningless? Nope, sorry, you have yet to establish your point.

 

[Remathilis]

Most of these are mostly flavor anyway and not the meaningful mechanical benefits of those species though. For example, you had issues with eating sleeping and drinking? You're going to change what subclass you take, or species you pick, because the species or subclass needs a bump to balance it out in replacing a duplicate ability to not eat, drink or sleep?

So far I have not see one of these issues be named where it was the reason you'd pick that species to begin with. It's been all borderline situational abilities or mostly flavor abilities.

They are still class features you don't get because you already have them.

For example, lets say you want to do a red dragonborn sorcerer focusing on fire magic. Thematically appropriate. You pick a lot of fire spells, breathe fire as a dragonborn and resist fire damage. You maybe even picked up Elemental Affinity as a feat. Now you reach level 6, which gives you the ability to pick an element and you gain resistance to it and add your Cha mod to the damage. The problem is, if you pick fire, you get th e +Cha to a roll but not the resistance because you already have the resistance. So you're getting half a feature. If you picked Cold, you would get that resistance in addition to Fire, but lose out on +Cha to fire spells in exchange for Cold.

Ergo, the best method to build a dragonborn draconic sorcerer is not to pick fire for species and fire for subclass, but to pick another element (cold, for example) for species and fire for subclass (or vice versa). So your white dragonborn is the master of fire magic or your red dragonborn the master of cold magic.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Anytime a character gets an ability they already have from another source, I give them something else from the same category. I'd give the celestial warlock Aasimar another cleric cantrip and a different resistance (lightning is a common immunity for celestials, but I'd be open to others).

Then again, I let people stack Extra Attack so martial multi classes don't have dead levels.

There really ought to be a general rule about these kinds of redundancies. They come up all the time.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It's dampened a lot. Especially since it only lets you escape grapples.

IMO, the biggest reason is so you can much more easily play a goliath wizard. Including using their abilities when you hit with a firebolt.

Yes...NUMBERS are the real problem here.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Why not a redundacy trait to be replaced with a energy substitution metamagic feat?