Project Sigil All the Deets on Project Sigil the D&D 3D Virtual Tabletop

• Danger in Dunbarrow is the adventure designed to introduced the 3D tabletop.
• Bring in any character from D&D Beyond.
• 'Mini Maker' lets you design digital miniatures.
• Assets designed to feel like buying a high-end mini or figure somewhere between painted and realistic.
• Plug in locations like graveyard, mine, town each with a premade story you can use or ignore.
• "Modding games more than making them whole cloth."
• The Level Builder is like 'the best miniatures set that you could have'. Snap together different kit pieces.
• Secret doors, traps, lifts that go up and down.
• Also use 2D tokens with artwork you have.
• Also use 2D maps.
• You can play other games with it, not just D&D.
• Have Drizzt fight Optimus Prime.
• Share content with others.
• Starting on PC, other platforms later including mobile and console.
• Will be available to try out for free.
• Closed beta coming this fall for those with a DDB account.
• Pre-order 2024 physical and digital core rulebook bundle to get a free digital gold dragon mini to 'kickstarter your Project Sigil collection'.

 

[Burnside]

Unless something has changed since last I checked, Steam is owned by Valve, a company that makes video games.

I was taking a shot at Valve's dwindling games output there, but in all honesty I think they figured out that the distributor makes more money than the producer.

Incidentally, I’m not knocking WotC’s business move in this area - if I was WotC, I would 100% want to be the Steam of TTRPGs. I just think that development probably won’t be great for any other TTRPG company in the long run (it’ll be very good for a select few in the short run though).

 

[doctorhook]

Do people actually think this is a valid concern? Seriously?

People always look for the worst possible thing they could do because it's WotC. Even when it's nonsensical.

What’s nonsensical about it? WotC has implemented arbitrary restrictions on digital duplicates within multiple digital MTG platforms, because it enhances their revenue stream. Other games and platforms have done it too.

Some folks here seem to have rose-coloured glasses about this platform being the ideal sandbox VTT tool we’ve all dreamt of. Hasbro is investing heavily in this direction, and they will want to maximize revenue from it. Why assume they WON’T use business practices that are already common and which they’ve already used on other products?

It’s one thing to say you think this is unlikely, but it’s shortsighted to dismiss it as impossible or “nonsense”. I’m not saying it’s inevitable, just that it’s easily possible. Folks are making too many assumptions.

 

[Oofta]

What’s nonsensical about it? WotC has implemented arbitrary restrictions on digital duplicates within multiple digital MTG platforms, because it enhances their revenue stream. Other games and platforms have done it too.

Some folks here seem to have rose-coloured glasses about this platform being the ideal sandbox VTT tool we’ve all dreamt of. Hasbro is investing heavily in this direction, and they will want to maximize revenue from it. Why assume they WON’T use business practices that are already common and which they’ve already used on other products?

It’s one thing to say you think this is unlikely, but it’s shortsighted to dismiss it as impossible or “nonsense”. I’m not saying it’s inevitable, just that it’s easily possible. Folks are making too many assumptions.

MtG has nothing to do with a VTT, it's completely different. I just don't see the point of these conspiracy theory level assumptions. There are several VTTs out there. Sigil is not and will not be a monopoly, they won't be able to compete if they do such stupid things.

It's nonsensical because it makes 0 sense from a business perspective if they want to compete against already well established products. There will be plenty of opportunities to make money with subscription fees, special terrain and maps, likely a cost to various monster figures if you don't want to use your own 2D images. Just like every other VTT on the market.

 

[doctorhook]

It's not going to be a monopoly and they've shown that you can import 2D tokens if you don't have a particular monster. There's no reason to think they'll limit you to one version of a fig, no other VTT in existence does that.

EDIT: See below for my comments on monopoly

What other VTTs have done is no barrier to what WotC can or will do with theirs. And no other VTT has had this level of investment or branding directly attached to it. It’s likely to be the biggest ever once it launches. You should be expecting that whatever Sigil does will set expectations for all the others, not the other way around.

WotC is the big fish in the pond, but it isn't a monopoly at this time. The sheer number of non-WotC games and VTTs kind of flies in the face of the idea of monopoly. We are seeing TTRPG projects with revenues of $10 million and more, for goodness sake!

Re: Monopoly. I should have been a bit more specific—I didn’t mean WotC monopolizes this hobby, but as creators of this platform they will definitely have monopoly control over it. Even when they allow other companies to use and sell on this platform, it’ll still be entirely their prerogative how to operate it (within scope of whatever contract agreements they sign).

My whole point is just that all of this is under WotC’s direct control and it’s still impossible to know what their final business strategy will be with this tool. We won’t know until it’s been in full release for a while. Presently, it’s approaching a large-scale beta testing launch, which is as much as sales pitch phase as it is a development phase. Everything we’re seeing and being told is meant to make this project look as good as possible right now. That’s fine, but folks should temper their expectations too.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

I wonder if the software could be used for both, the VTT and also a CRPG. Why? Because some players would rather to create their own stories, for example something like an "interactive novel" or a gamebook style "Choose your own adventure/Endless Quest". Some "jokers" would create Ravenloft adventures... and other players would enjoy being scared.

And let's remember the rival VTTs can be used for no-fantasy titles, for example sci-fi or urban fantasy.

 

[Oofta]

Re: Monopoly. I should have been a bit more specific—I didn’t mean WotC monopolizes this hobby, but as creators of this platform they will definitely have monopoly control over it. Even when they allow other companies to use and sell on this platform, it’ll still be entirely their prerogative how to operate it (within scope of whatever contract agreements they sign).

My whole point is just that all of this is under WotC’s direct control and it’s still impossible to know what their final business strategy will be with this tool. We won’t know until it’s been in full release for a while. Presently, it’s approaching a large-scale beta testing launch, which is as much as sales pitch phase as it is a development phase. Everything we’re seeing and being told is meant to make this project look as good as possible right now. That’s fine, but folks should temper their expectations too.

A company controlling their own product is not a "monopoly". The D&D brand may be the 800 pound gorilla in the room but they are still licensing the rules to other VTTs. Obviously they hope to be popular and may someday be a big player. But I don't ever expect them to dominate the market and if they do it will be because they have a superior product. But even if they ever do dominate the market (which would likely take years because people are invested in other tools), it will still be a crowded marketplace.

I have no expectations for the VTT one way or another. At some point I may experiment with it because we have a couple of players that are remote (we currently use a camera pointed at gaming grid) and from what I've seen it looks like something I'd prefer over Roll20, the VTT I used during COVID. But if I ever do, it will be because it works better than other VTTs at a competitive price.

Yes they are trying to make the product look good. That's what people do when they want to sell something.

 

[doctorhook]

MtG has nothing to do with a VTT, it's completely different. I just don't see the point of these conspiracy theory level assumptions. There are several VTTs out there. Sigil is not and will not be a monopoly, they won't be able to compete if they do such stupid things.

It's nonsensical because it makes 0 sense from a business perspective if they want to compete against already well established products. There will be plenty of opportunities to make money with subscription fees, special terrain and maps, likely a cost to various monster figures if you don't want to use your own 2D images. Just like every other VTT on the market.

MTG is another flagship product by the same company, and WotC has copied aspects of that model many times in the past. It’s silly to assume that they can’t or won’t again. It’s hardly conspiracy to speculate that they might use the same digital paywall tactics in Sigil as they’ve used in Arena or MTGO.

WotC will have monopoly control over Sigil, even if they allow other systems to sell on their platform. That’s beyond dispute unless you can show me news of Kobold Press buying an ownership stake in this platform.

Sigil will be immediately competitive with other VTTs just because of the D&D brand, even if the software is trash. (No reason to assume it’ll be trash either.) Hasbro is spending a lot of money to make a Roll20 killer here.

You even admit that there will be lots of other revenue opportunities within Sigil, so why are you so adamant that they would never charge for multiple copies of 3D minis? You’re so sure that they would never that you won’t admit that they definitely could.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

It makes no sense to assume messed up monetization until we actually see evidence of it.
Especially since we haven’t had messed up monetization yet.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

My thing with the whole monetization of D&D is that it comes from a statement their president made at the time. The biggest problem they have is that 1/5 of any party is making the lion’s share of the purchases - the DM.

They don’t have a problem with that, there is so much dumb hearsay from that meeting.

 

[Micah Sweet]

A company controlling their own product is not a "monopoly". The D&D brand may be the 800 pound gorilla in the room but they are still licensing the rules to other VTTs. Obviously they hope to be popular and may someday be a big player. But I don't ever expect them to dominate the market and if they do it will be because they have a superior product. But even if they ever do dominate the market (which would likely take years because people are invested in other tools), it will still be a crowded marketplace.

I have no expectations for the VTT one way or another. At some point I may experiment with it because we have a couple of players that are remote (we currently use a camera pointed at gaming grid) and from what I've seen it looks like something I'd prefer over Roll20, the VTT I used during COVID. But if I ever do, it will be because it works better than other VTTs at a competitive price.

Yes they are trying to make the product look good. That's what people do when they want to sell something.

I think I would use Foundry if I moved into the VTT space. Several games I enjoy, including Level Up, use it.