How Dragonbane Pointed out the Clashing Desires of My Gaming Group

[Shardstone]

Now, here's the flip side of the coin: You need to stop imposing your ideas of what you think is needed for their ideal RPG to be any good. If all they're looking for is a series of combats they can win and move on to the next, then that is all you need to give them. And be THANKFUL that you have players who are willing to show up regularly regardless if they are getting exactly what they want, or what you want. Because a lot of times, compromise is what it takes to keep a group playing together despite differences. And the fact that everyone sat through 8 supposedly unsatisfying months of a 4e campaign shows you have a stable group that includes your spouse! Do you know how many people out here have only ever dreamed of having such a gaming circle available to them?

Now, I don't recall all the details of your last raving regarding what happened in your 4e game. It seemed everyone was mostly ok with the parts that appealed to them the most (i.e. fighting monsters, kicking butt, and taking loot), and less thrilled about the parts that you insisted were the best parts of the system (i.e. skill challenges, etc) even though they clearly did not care/ask for those bits.

I get not being able to run the games you want the way you want, but in this case, you're being asked to do less and focus on only parts of the game that appeal to your players. They don't want to give you a wish list for magic items? So what! It's not a requirement. Pick out the items for them, or roll random. In fact, strip it down to Essentials only so there's four books you need, and run Encounters for them. Use the Chaos Scar for a bare-bones setting and a dungeon-of-the-week style game. 4e is literally the easiest D&D system for DMs to throw stuff together that will balance and entertain players for a few hours a night.

You're just as hung up on your own ideas and expectations as your players. That is largely why you've been suffering with this for so long. I'm surprised your group is still trying at this point, but I suspect there is more to your group than playing styles and preferences. Honestly, it is that relationship and bond with these people that matter most. Take care.

I hate this post. No one should be thankful for thankless players. You talk like the gm is a toy.

 

[Shardstone]

Had the talk about the game with the players tonight. Story gamer is loving it. My neighbor is coming around. My wife had a couple fun moments but overall isn't a fan - is willing to stick with it as long as others are liking it.

So all it took was a session 2...lol

That is good though.

 

[Retreater]

Genuinely curious, are you implying DB has some unfun character options? As in poorly designed?

I'd say that there are definitely some options that are less immediately helpful in some games, depending on how they're run. Like a merchant that never visits towns, a mariner in a desert, etc. However, the characters are largely skill focused, so as long as you have relevant skills, you should be ok.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I'd say that there are definitely some options that are less immediately helpful in some games, depending on how they're run. Like a merchant that never visits towns, a mariner in a desert, etc. However, the characters are largely skill focused, so as long as you have relevant skills, you should be ok.

Almost all skill-based games provide the potential for irrelevant designs; that's why you need to make sure to make it clear what the campaign is about (and sometimes bluntly point out that someone has built a character that is going to be useless most of the time).

 

[S'mon]

Genuinely curious, are you implying DB has some unfun character options? As in poorly designed?

Unsuited for a typical high combat campaign, yes. Only a few classes/professions start out combat capable.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Unsuited for a typical high combat campaign, yes. Only a few classes/professions start out combat capable.

Out of curiosity, is it possible to patch over this in character generation if you know you need to? Most skill-based systems I know of have some floating skill points or the equivalent but I'm not familiar with the game at hand.

 

[S'mon]

Out of curiosity, is it possible to patch over this in character generation if you know you need to? Most skill-based systems I know of have some floating skill points or the equivalent but I'm not familiar with the game at hand.

Not really, not if you stick with the starting packages. The main issue is not so much skills, it's lack of armour and the default Heroic Ability - eg the Bard seems guaranteed to get killed if the monsters are at all smart. You could allow free choice of starting HA which is already an option, but the biggest survival booster would be if everyone could start with chainmail and shield. The Thief might want to sneak and dodge in Leather, but I think most PCs need solid armour.

What I do rather is basically guide new players to start with the combat oriented classes - Knight Fighter Mage Thief. Or you could go the other way and run it like WFRP with everyone barely combatant and set it in back allies instead of dungeon delving.

 

[Retreater]

Out of curiosity, is it possible to patch over this in character generation if you know you need to? Most skill-based systems I know of have some floating skill points or the equivalent but I'm not familiar with the game at hand.

Characters get at least 2 "floating" skill trainings that they can apply to any basic skills, regardless of their class. (Perhaps more, depending on their age.)

Heroic Abilities (kind of like Feats) can have less impact in combat depending on your class. Those can be swapped out with GM approval.

Not everyone is really suited for wearing heavy armor. If you're a sneaky type, you're going to be rolling with disadvantage. If you're a mage, you can't use magic at all. So, it's most beneficial for thieves to let the knights and armored warriors to take the blows. They can hide, fire at range, invest in Evade to dodge attacks, etc. Mages should stay towards the back, if they can.

Not everyone can be equally good at everything.

 

[timbannock]

Might've missed it elsewhere in this thread, but have you considered Forbidden Psalm, the Mork Borg-but-Tactical RPG?

Or how about the Lumen family of games (NOVA, Light, etc.)

I wonder if something like that which greatly simplifies everything but still has some tactical "meat" might work for players like this. You could bust out Gloomhaven for when you don't want to GM, but games like the above can go far. And anything *Borg can be converted to Shadowdark with basically zero effort (flip modifiers, turn DR notations into modifiers).

 

[Retreater]

Might've missed it elsewhere in this thread, but have you considered Forbidden Psalm, the Mork Borg-but-Tactical RPG?

Or how about the Lumen family of games (NOVA, Light, etc.)

I know some of the Borg games but haven't looked into Forbidden Psalm. I don't think I've ever come across Lumen.
Another potential rules lite tactical game I may consider later is Strike! For now, we're going to forge ahead with Dragonbane. I'd say we're at a 66% satisfaction level currently.