D&D (2024) Saving Thow importance changed. Strength is now a valuable save

[Xeviat]

Monsters aren't making unarmedstrikes and they not using weapon masteries though.

If you look at the monsters in the PHB, They either grapple on a hit or is it Strength save.

The crocodile and giant crab grapple on it.
The constricted snake grapples with a strength save.



Grappling Monsters aren't grappling with unarmed strikes.

I thought the grappling animals we see in the PHB had a save on their constrict attacks.

 

[Minigiant]

Is there maybe a typo in this sentence because I can’t make sense of it as-written?

Premise

Voice to text systems really struggle when I code switch back to my natural Afro-caribbean Brooklyn accent.

A DM doesn’t have to shift anything for a monster to make an unarmed strike. Thats just an action available for any creature to take. Always has been

The point is that unarmed strikes cannot be related to any frequency because It's frequency of usage cannot be collected since every monster can use it but not every monsters optimized to use it.

 

[Minigiant]

I thought the grappling animals we see in the PHB had a save on their constrict attacks.

Not all

 

[pukunui]

Not all monsters that a DM might want to have push or grapple a PC will have such abilities. Like, sure, a wolf can just do it on a hit, but sometimes you don’t want a wolf, you want an orc, or a bugbear, or whatever.

I think it’ll vary quite a bit from table to table. Personally, I like to have monsters favor enabling themselves and/or their allies to attack with advantage over attacking without advantage, so I anticipate them making a lot of unarmed strikes to knock a target down and gang up on them. For DMs who prefer to just have every monster use its higest damage attack every round, there may be fewer unarmed strikes being made.

But you don't have to use a wolf. You could make an orc that has an attack like the wolf's that automatically knocks an opponent prone on a hit. There's no reason that you have to have the monster make an Unarmed Strike.

 

[Charlaquin]

Premise

Voice to text systems really struggle when I code switch back to my natural Afro-caribbean Brooklyn accent.

Ah, ok.

The point is that unarmed strikes cannot be related to any frequency because It's frequency of usage cannot be collected since every monster can use it but not every monsters optimized to use it.

I see, so your argument is that since different DMs will use unarmed strikes more or less often, we can’t accurately determine if strength saves will be more frequent, less frequent, or the same at any given table?

 

[Minigiant]

Ah, ok.

I see, so your argument is that since different DMs will use unarmed strikes more or less often, we can’t accurately determine if strength saves will be more frequent, less frequent, or the same at any given table?

Yes

At least with the consideration of unarmed strikes

 

[Charlaquin]

But you don't have to use a wolf. You could make an orc that has an attack like the wolf's that automatically knocks an opponent prone on a hit. There's no reason that you have to have the monster make an Unarmed Strike.

The reason you have to have the orc use an unarmed strike is because orcs don’t have an attack that knocks prone on a hit. Sure, you could homebrew an orc with such an attack, but by the same token you could homebrew a wolf whose bite does allow a strength save to resist getting knocked prone.

 

[Charlaquin]

Yes

At least with the consideration of unarmed strikes

Which must always be considered, since they’re an option for all monsters.

 

[pukunui]

I thought the grappling animals we see in the PHB had a save on their constrict attacks.

Grapple

• Constrictor snake = Str save
• Crocodile = Auto-grapple and restrain on a hit
• Giant Crab = Auto-grapple on a hit

Also:

Prone

• Boar = Auto-prone on a hit
• Brown Bear = Auto-prone on a hit
• Dire Wolf = Auto-prone on a hit
• Elephant = Auto-prone on a charging hit (and it can then do a Dex save trample as a bonus action)
• Elk = Auto-prone on a charging hit
• Giant Goat = Auto-prone on a charging hit
• Mastiff = Auto-prone on a hit
• Tiger = Auto-prone on a hit made with advantage
• Warhorse = Auto-prone on a charging hit
• Wolf = Auto-prone on a hit

Restrained

• Giant Spider = Dex save

Frightened

• Lion = Wis save
• Quasit = Wis save

Poisoned

• Pseudodragon = Con save
• Quasit = Auto-poisoned on a hit

Charmed

• Sprite = Auto-charmed on a hit

So out of the various creatures in the PHB that apply conditions, only one requires a Strength save. There are at least a dozen on the above list that no longer require a Str save.

 

[Xeviat]

Grapple

• Constrictor snake = Str save
• Crocodile = Auto-grapple and restrain on a hit
• Giant Crab = Auto-grapple on a hit

Also:

Prone

• Boar = Auto-prone on a hit
• Brown Bear = Auto-prone on a hit
• Dire Wolf = Auto-prone on a hit
• Elephant = Auto-prone on a charging hit (and it can then do a Dex save trample as a bonus action)
• Elk = Auto-prone on a charging hit
• Giant Goat = Auto-prone on a charging hit
• Mastiff = Auto-prone on a hit
• Tiger = Auto-prone on a hit made with advantage
• Warhorse = Auto-prone on a charging hit
• Wolf = Auto-prone on a hit

Restrained

• Giant Spider = Dex save

Frightened

• Lion = Wis save
• Quasit = Wis save

Poisoned

• Pseudodragon = Con save
• Quasit = Auto-poisoned on a hit

Charmed

• Sprite = Auto-charmed on a hit

So out of the various creatures in the PHB that apply conditions, only one requires a Strength save. There are at least a dozen on the above list that no longer require a Str save.

Guess my love of snakes showed me which creature I remembered, hahaha!