D&D (2024) Party Balance?

[DrJawaPhD]

I think I might have been taking it for granted my (and other players) experience in how to build a character to fill these roles. I'm not sure how much everyone agrees or disagrees with the premise either and the fact this statement doesn't really give new players information on how these classes fit in with their abilities. It looks to me like it's an appeal to tradition, which I don't think is necessarily bad (I like nostalgia too ) but I think it could have been expanded on a bit more if WotC is putting that premise out for players.

I'm also curious what other experienced players might thing of what's needed and where these classes fit into "party balance".

I think that text is ok as a nod to the history of the game and an appeal to nostalgia, but it also is actively detrimental to new players learning DnD.

It sure looks like the standard holy trinity of MMORPG roles - tank, healer, and then melee/ranged dps, which is absolutely NOT how DnD operates. Healers are not required in DnD like they are in MMORPGs and anyone thinking they'll be the party healer in combat is going to feel rather useless most of the time. Tanking just isn't even a thing in DnD since there are no aggro mechanics, and pretending like "sturdy melee character" is an important role is outright misinformation.

All in all I'd say that section is just plain bad advice but that's just my opinion on it.

 

[Gorck]

Didnt they break the classes into magic user, martial, skill guy or something during the playtest? Seems like that might be easier then a bunch of text.

This is from the 3rd UA "The Cleric and Revised Species":

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I love the idea that WotC is suggesting a party of three bards and one miserable paladin.

I want to play in that campaign.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

All in all I'd say that section is just plain bad advice but that's just my opinion on it.

The holy trinity-in-four-parts isn't required by 5E, but a party built along those lines is certainly going to have a much easier time in a generic adventure than one that isn't.

It's good advice for newbie players. After a few games, they'll let their freak flag fly with their all-warlock craziness or whatever.

 

[Horwath]

I think that text is ok as a nod to the history of the game and an appeal to nostalgia, but it also is actively detrimental to new players learning DnD.

It sure looks like the standard holy trinity of MMORPG roles - tank, healer, and then melee/ranged dps, which is absolutely NOT how DnD operates. Healers are not required in DnD like they are in MMORPGs and anyone thinking they'll be the party healer in combat is going to feel rather useless most of the time. Tanking just isn't even a thing in DnD since there are no aggro mechanics, and pretending like "sturdy melee character" is an important role is outright misinformation.

All in all I'd say that section is just plain bad advice but that's just my opinion on it.

there is a role for "tank" in D&D.
not all enemies are intelligent enough to go after weak ranged glass cannons, and not all terrain give that opportunity.
There is quite a few monsters that would attack the first and nearest threat they can, ignoring rest until the closest is resolved.

Paladin's Compelled duel is a "soft taunt" mechanics, same as 14th level wild heartbarbarian.

AS for healers, yeah, not necessary, but with new Cure spell buff, it might be viable choice.

 

[Ashrym]

"Tanking" can be standing in a choke point or other actions. It's not just the compelled duel spell or goading attack maneuver either. Effects like topple, slow, and push from weapon mastery can cost an opponent so much movement they cannot close to squishier PC's.

The interception and protection fighting style feats exist to defend allies. The sentinel feat also impedes movement.

Sometime we're too focused on damage instead of options like these.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

It's just 4e roles with the serial numbers filed off, bundling in the idea of subroles (e.g. Cleric can be a pinch Striker and/or a decent Controller if built for it, in addition to its core healing capability.) It's the tiniest bit looser but like... it's still fundamentally the same concept.

Of course, since 5e is doing it, it is naturally God's gift to tabletops.

 

[Lanefan]

So it's right there in the PH: a "classic" 4-character party can now consist of Bard, Fighter, Bard, and Bard and still cover all the bases.

@Snarf Zagyg will be overjoyed.

 

[Ashrym]

So it's right there in the PH: a "classic" 4-character party can now consist of Bard, Fighter, Bard, and Bard and still cover all the bases.

@Snarf Zagyg will be overjoyed.

The fighter should be named Roadie.... "Roadie and the Band".

 

[Horwath]

So it's right there in the PH: a "classic" 4-character party can now consist of Bard, Fighter, Bard, and Bard and still cover all the bases.

@Snarf Zagyg will be overjoyed.

cant the fighter be replaced with valor bard?