D&D General It's Magic, You Know

[I'm A Banana]

I've been looking at some OSR games that use some aggressive inventory tracking mechanics and I'm quite partial to the idea of a character significantly (exclusively? almost exclusively?) defined by what they find in play and what they choose to equip and use. What if you only had one (or maybe 1 + int modifier or something) spell slot, and you could "equip" a spell in those slots. Caster classes might start with a spell equipped that's a good all-purpose kind of spell (the selection is a little like a caster version of Two-Handed Weapon, Weapon & Shield, or Two Light Weapons?), and then you can find weirder and wilder spells out while adventuring that might be a little cursed or a little hard to use or a little niche, but all of that is fine, because you aren't expected to necessarily replace your bread & butter starting spell.

 

[TwoSix]

I've been looking at some OSR games that use some aggressive inventory tracking mechanics and I'm quite partial to the idea of a character significantly (exclusively? almost exclusively?) defined by what they find in play and what they choose to equip and use. What if you only had one (or maybe 1 + int modifier or something) spell slot, and you could "equip" a spell in those slots. Caster classes might start with a spell equipped that's a good all-purpose kind of spell (the selection is a little like a caster version of Two-Handed Weapon, Weapon & Shield, or Two Light Weapons?), and then you can find weirder and wilder spells out while adventuring that might be a little cursed or a little hard to use or a little niche, but all of that is fine, because you aren't expected to necessarily replace your bread & butter starting spell.

Yea, I think there's a sweet spot between games like Knave and Cairn with totally classless, item-based progression and something like 5e with entirely player-driven, metagame progression.

Ideally, something with starting options like a MOBA but a progression system like a roguelike.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Id go with something pretty basic and relatable: mana points and tiered thematic spells schools (fire, wood, beast, mind, teleportation, ice, draconic, etc).

 

[overgeeked]

One caster class that can access both arcane and divine magic and a mana point system. Spell "schools" would be thematic groupings like weather, fire, water, air, etc.

 

[TheAlkaizer]

I'm slowly working on my own system and in the last month I've thought about magic. Right now, I'm leaning more towards having a chance to fail casting the spell that's based on an exhaustion level. The exhaustion level goes up with every spell cast so it becomes harder and harder. Higher level spells increase the DC to hit. I prefer an approach like this to just having a limited amount of points.

 

[Krachek]

Simply 5ed magic system, which is not a pure vancian (memorize, fire, forget) system.

 

[CreamCloud0]

some system with spell points for cost and built from concept spheres, spell skeletons to insert your keywords into and metamagics.

 

[Laurefindel]

Let's say we could no longer use Vancian Magic (I'm sure there are homebrews like this). What sort of spell system might folks see replacing it and why?

For me I tend to like spell points and something like Ars Magica where a person can combine an "act" with something to be acted on. "Create Water" "Create Fire", etc. I think it allows for a lot of useful spell creation without having to memorize particular spells nor explain why someone has to continuously relearn them.

Let see. Vancian Magic is built on three principles:

1) Magic is finite - a wizard can "run out of magic".
On that regard we could argue that D&D isn't Vancian anymore with at-will cantrip, but for the most part spells are still counted. This I would try to preserve, either through a system of "Mana Points" or pool of magic to draw from somehow, because the alternatives are either completely unbalanced or too reliant on situational and circumstantial elements (like casting at full moon or something) to fit well in a D&D game. (This is in the D&D subforum so I assume we're talking about D&D).

2) Magic is performed by casting spells.
Againg on that regard, D&D has many ways to perform magic that isn't spellcasting, but spellcasting nevertheless relies mainly on spells. A spell in the Vancian definition is a packaged effect - you can't downcast your fireball to light your cigarette, or make a line of fire instead. Personally, I like spells. I prefer them to free-form magic which is hard to balance and takes a lot of mental room at the table.

3) spells take too long to cast. A wizard « memorizes » spells that are then ready to cast, like bullets in a loaded gun.
This is the big one that makes Vancian what it is. Again we can argue that D&D has moved away from that already, but we still have spell slots of undefined spells. Typically when people say « Vancian », they usually mean « undefined spell slots ». As annoying as they are, they are a powerful tool and they’re hard to replace.

I wouldn’t mind a spell point system. The question already is at what rate it refreshes.

 

[Distracted DM]

I like DCC, check, potency, corruption, and burn!

This is my favorite- DCC magic is wonderfully weird.

 

[Distracted DM]

So besides DCC's system which is roll-to-cast with varying results from success and failure...

My mind went to Ultima Online. You'd learn spells from scrolls iirc and copy them into books, but the biggest barrier to magehood in UO was spell reagents.
They were particular, they were tough to get a lot of, and you had to have them to do anything.

So either:
- Reagents are really important, spells are very powerful, and a caster player really needs to manage their inventory and specifically note what they do and don't have, what they consume, and really keep an eye out for the reagents... I think this caster class would be like the Mage in OSE, which is basically Gandalf- they have a magic staff and a couple basic roll-to-casts: light, detect magic, read magic, and are passable unarmored warriors (sword + staff iirc). Everything else is reagent-based.
OR
- Reagents are what make the spells. This is sort of a freeflow magic system, sort of like other systems (I can't remember any off the top of my head but they're out there), you'd have several keywords and make spells out of those keywords. Flame, project, burst = a fireball effect. Something like that. Except it's powered by the reagents you've collected.
As I'm writing this, option 2 sounds like a big pain in the arse :'D

iirc UO mages also had mana, so there was a limit even with infinite reagents as to what they could do? Been a while. This could be reflected in some sort of exhaustion mechanic, rather than just "mana."

I'm gonna guess that these systems already exist, what with the depth of the TTRPG world... anyone recognize them?