D&D (2024) I have the DMG. AMA!

[Micah Sweet]

I feel like exploring their character via roleplay isn't going rogue.

While working with the DM on planning character arcs is a good idea, it shouldn't be mandatory or punished.

Except the PC clearly was going rogue, leading to in-setting fictional consequences that naturally carried over mechanically.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I think 4e woke a few of them up but still most of that mass of players are just along for the ride. They like D&D and play D&D.

It certainly woke me up to how much better a Fantasy RPG could be.

They could have provided something different.

Okay, but what? And you still aren't saying what the issue with it is. I've never seen anyone complain about Second Wind in particular, so I'm curious.

When you embed a controversial element right in the core class, it tells me you don't care a flying fig about my playstyle. You knew I'd hate it.

1) I've never seen Second Wind presented controversial before.

2) They... they don't know you, dude. They didn't know you'd hate it because they have absolutely not idea who you or I are.

If they were wanting to keep more players in the game, that would be why but sure if they are assuming the older players will always slide off into some retroclone of their particular edition and all that matters is the newbs that is fine.

They don't seem to want to keep elements that enable DMs to run new players out of the game with older, more adversarial playstyles. Plenty of older players either never played like that or stopped and still paly the game.

 

[mamba]

So it wasn't about players cleric powers cannot be taken by their God?

no, about some class / subclass and their combat features

 

[TiQuinn]

No it can't possibly be for a purpose like "avoidance or conflict" because it expressly encourages conflict by giving a player the option to say "no it says I can't be affected so I'm doing it anyways" if the gm or another player questions the action they were about to take being against their PC's faith/patron/etc.

Only because you perceive a power dynamic and see the rules being flipped in a way that provides enjoyment for the players based on the way people play the game.

 

[Scribe]

You know, I think the point that most D&D campaigns are really like pro wrestling storylines is an underused metaphor.

I'll have you know that my campaigns are literary masterworks. Tears flow freely down the stubbly cheeks of men, and women swoon over the heroics on display...

ahem

In my fever dreams anyway.

I mean, you can still find plenty of people who profess a hellfire and damnation version of Christianity. Go find any moderately political topic and they will be there.

Yeah, but they are not Gen Z RPGers.

 

[Vaalingrade]

"Kayfabe" is the perfect word for it, but maybe it's too jargony.

At least it's popular jargon as opposed to the chinchilla-facing, guru-stance combat-as-sandart kind of jargon we usually use to make sure we collectively need to have our lunch money taken.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That's just bog-standard "playacting competition" that's super common between players and DMs. I constantly act "super frustrated" that the PCs managed to kill my clever boss fights; in reality, I couldn't care less, it's all just part of the show.

Where is that written?

 

[Vaalingrade]

When your gods have empirical existence in your world, the traditional definition of faith becomes less valid.

Then maybe they don't need empirical existence in the world. Or at least they need some distance to make faith matter and... well... exist.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I'd argue making players not want to play the game because they don't want to be left with a useless character is not good for the longevity of the game.

If they feel that way. Who's to say that will be the case? We can only speak for ourselves.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Players who never want anything negative to happen to their PCs no matter what they do can also be encouraged by the rules. IMO they have been.

Hurray!