D&D (2024) DMG 5.5 - the return of bespoke magical items?

[Hussar]

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IMO that's a bug in AP play rather than a feature.

Bug or feature isn’t my point though. My point is, it exists. There are more than a few APs like this. Which makes it difficult to integrate into the campaign.

It’s a lot like the bastion rules. I love the concept but I realize that in most APs the rules won’t come up. The pcs just never have the time to make it happen or will be moving so much that a bastion will not be seen again.

The same with these rules. We’ll see a flood of common and uncommon items because they’re so useful and so much bang for the buck.

I mean we already saw this. That’s exactly what happened in 3e. Players aren’t stupid. They’re going to get the biggest bang for the buck which means this is pure power creep.

 

[pemerton]

We played the Giants AP and had almost no downtime. I remember that my character was trying to learn Giantish in downtime and we finished the campaign before I managed it.

That seems a bit of a bummer.

 

[Hussar]

That seems a bit of a bummer.

Meh, it was what it was. It is a great AP and a ton of fun. Just didn't have much downtime. There was some, just not a lot. It was kinda funny actually, in the end.

 

[Ancalagon]

I Simply replied to the idea that it was hard to prevent crafting that way. Nothing was said about could or should. Its. Not hard to stop crafting or magic item shops. it is hard to stop players from wanting those parts of the game.

Of course the DM always has final say. But a system that allows people to do things but oh no not that one is... very frustrating for players.

 

[Ancalagon]

it occurs to me that between the requirements of Arcana proficiency and needing to have the spell prepared magic item crafting is most inaccessible to the characters who would need and benefit from it most: martials.

the OG magic item tables were weighted the way they were because magic weapons and gear were functionally de-facto class features for martials and after various editions class design hasn't really changed enough in the ways that matter to remove the unstated design assumptions in the game that assumes your fightery types should each be lugging around a few peices of good magical gear past the lowest teirs.

In my 35 years of experience, in at least 90% of campaigns a wizard PC would be delighted to craft a shield of shield for the party tanks. (in a few campaigns the castes are jerks. This is not the norm)

A subsection of martials would also be able to do this with ease - various gishes, even my psi warrior sage could have done it with but a little tweaking...

 

[Lanefan]

Yes. Being the important person's bodyguard. What a thrill.

If it's teamwork you want then everyone on the team has a job to do. For the blast-caster that job is blowing up the opposition. For the tank it's defending the caster. For the sneak it's mopping up whatever the caster doesn't blow away. For the healer it's healing and support. And so on.

Or the party can act as a bunch of disconnected individuals (which IME is the standard procedure) and by so doing become less than the sum of their parts rather than greater.

If the game paid more heed to the idea of henches then the caster could hire a tank as a personal defender or bodyguard, but I'm not sure if 5e even has provision for henches.

 

[Lanefan]

Bug or feature isn’t my point though. My point is, it exists. There are more than a few APs like this. Which makes it difficult to integrate into the campaign.

It’s a lot like the bastion rules. I love the concept but I realize that in most APs the rules won’t come up. The pcs just never have the time to make it happen or will be moving so much that a bastion will not be seen again.

I wonder if bastions and other downtime rules will cause a general shift away from AP-style play. It'll be interesting to see what kind of "official" adventures WotC put out for 5.2e, in particular whether those adventures will pay more attention to downtime so as to support these new rules.

The same with these rules. We’ll see a flood of common and uncommon items because they’re so useful and so much bang for the buck.

I mean we already saw this. That’s exactly what happened in 3e. Players aren’t stupid. They’re going to get the biggest bang for the buck which means this is pure power creep.

Sadly, you're probably right.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

If it's teamwork you want then everyone on the team has a job to do. For the blast-caster that job is blowing up the opposition. For the tank it's defending the caster. For the sneak it's mopping up whatever the caster doesn't blow away. For the healer it's healing and support. And so on.

Or the party can act as a bunch of disconnected individuals (which IME is the standard procedure) and by so doing become less than the sum of their parts rather than greater.

If the game paid more heed to the idea of henches then the caster could hire a tank as a personal defender or bodyguard, but I'm not sure if 5e even has provision for henches.

Alternatively, you could actually design a game where each person is an important team member, from the word go. Then, there wouldn't be any relegating people to just being bodyguards of the ones who actually get stuff done. Well, unless they actively seek that out, of course, but I'd hardly call that "relegating," would you?

 

[ezo]

This "everyone guard the caster" is not a role in the game. Tanks guard everyone in the rear while forming the "front line", including ranged support, whether spellcasters or martials. Healers heal everyone. Utility casters do whatever is most helpful. Skill monkeys do things no one else does. Scouts scout and infiltrate. And on and on...

Even in their indiviudal roles, everyone contributes to combat in a meaningful way and is important.

We just had a newbie join our group last night. He's played BG3, but no other D&D at all. In our group we have:

• Fighter (tank and reliable damage)
• Paladin (NOVA damage, less reliable otherwise, not as tanky)
• Rogue (scout and ranged damage)
• Sorcerer/ Cleric (healer and tank support-great AC and HP)

We're 6th level, and he said he wanted to play a monk. Given what we have I explained he won't have the HP or damage potential to tank or nova, he could be a good scout as well, etc. However, his main role will be in mobility, support, and lockdown opponents.

Another option I presented if he feels okay with a spellcaster (as a newbie) is the AoE, buffer, or artillery caster.

Either role will be valuable and an important to the group. Either as a non-caster or as a caster.

Earlier editions had very sufficient checks and balances for the "power" of casters compared to non-casters. Not that it's needed, really, since PCs don't often (and shouldn't IMO) go toe-to-toe against eachother. Otherwise, its a team activity and players should celebrate each other's moments instead of wondering "when's my turn!?"

 

[tetrasodium]

In my 35 years of experience, in at least 90% of campaigns a wizard PC would be delighted to craft a shield of shield for the party tanks. (in a few campaigns the castes are jerks. This is not the norm)

A subsection of martials would also be able to do this with ease - various gishes, even my psi warrior sage could have done it with but a little tweaking...

That has been my experience too. although in the last several years I've also noticed a troubling subset of players who would feel like needing that help rather than doing it themselves somehow diminishes their PC to a level on par with lowly sidekick even though nobody at the table thinks of them like that except for themselves. Those players are almost always coming from video games∆ and end up channeling many of the well known negative ttrpg player tropes with just enough frequency & strength to avoid getting called out for any one particular infraction. They need to be in charge... They need to be the one doing the most damage on any single attack. They need to be the toughest PC. They need to be the first point for need before greed treasure before anyone else can weigh in... Everyone else is treated like a sidekick who is just respected enough to not call BS on it and they can't accept that someone else does more at something or that they needed help from one of those sidekick types they never really view as anything more .

∆ especially single player and fps or non-team MOBA type games where it's considered socially acceptable for someone to play to DOMINATE doing anything to win or to rub in that win.