Pineapple Express: Someone Is Wrong on the Internet?

[CleverNickName]

They both should be no brainers. But if you’ve been paying attention around here, you’d know the first one is very, very controversial.

All of that is true. It just seems that #2 is always so, so much more emotionally-charged than #1. As soon as you narrow the field to focus on women (or any other historically exploited/marginalized group), people go from disagreeable to downright nasty.

#2 is controversial because so many "male influencers" have convinced a legion of sad, lonely men that women are some kind of alien, inscrutable beings at best and objects to be used and discarded at worst. Anyone infected by the "man-o-sphere" would be entirely puzzled why you'd want to talk to a woman, and would be aghast that you'd listen to one.

And it's not just the "sad, lonely men" that you mentioned--plenty of non-sad, non-lonely, and non-male people have bought into those same ideas of toxic masculinity. It's insidious. I'm a card-carrying member of the [rhymes with 'cloak'] crowd, and still I catch myself casually using gendered slurs, or making unfair/harmful assumptions based on gender alone. I'm working on it, but hoo boy. Those roots go deep in our culture.

Other humans are scruitable. You just may need an intense scruit. And maybe be willing to toss away many preconceived notions.

Quoted for truth, but also for the excellent phrase "intense scruit."

 

[Mad_Jack]

I say scru it all the time when trying to understand people...

 

[Staffan]

I.
Talk to the folks in your gaming group, and listen to what they have to say. And when they tell you that something isn't working well, or making them uncomfortable, or having a negative impact, believe them. Then do better.

II.
Talk to the women in your life, and listen to what they have to say. And when they tell you that something isn't working well, or making them uncomfortable, or having a negative impact, believe them. Then do better.

Why is #1 a no-brainer, and #2 so controversial?

But that would require treating women as people. /s

 

[Ryujin]

And it's not just the "sad, lonely men" that you mentioned--plenty of non-sad, non-lonely, and non-male people have bought into those same ideas of toxic masculinity. It's insidious. I'm a card-carrying member of the [rhymes with 'cloak'] crowd, and still I catch myself casually using gendered slurs, or making unfair/harmful assumptions based on gender alone. I'm working on it, but hoo boy. Those roots go deep in our culture.

Unfortunately, being a child of the '60s comes with certain baked-in behaviours. Hopefully we at least get some credit for recognizing the issues and trying to be and do better.

 

[Gradine]

I'm a card-carrying member of the [rhymes with 'cloak'] crowd,

e: Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[CleverNickName]

e: Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Also rhymes with bloke, stroke, and bespoke.

 

[Gradine]

Also rhymes with bloke, stroke, and bespoke.

Yeah I got there eventually. Just had a bit of a brain fart.

 

[billd91]

I'm a card-carrying member of the [rhymes with 'cloak'] crowd

The croak crowd?!? gasp Another bullfrog in disguise?!? I thought I was the only one!

 

[prabe]

Wow, almost replied to that completely missing-the-point post, glad I made that Wis Save.

 

[Gradine]

The croak crowd?!? gasp Another bullfrog in disguise?!? I thought I was the only one!