D&D General Just sweeping dirty dishes under the rug: D&D, Sexism, and the '70s

[Belen]

I would argue that we have a moral imperative to do more than simply choosing not to associate with such people, as individuals, but to (a) counter their messaging and (b) deliberately ostracize them until they are driven out of the hobby entirely. Any claims towards inclusivity are hollow without these steps.

I disagree, in part. A lot of socially awkward and ostracized people join this hobby and find a community that is more accepted an inclusive. A good number of these folks do not understand social queues and I have gamed with many awkward people and those on the spectrum.

A lot of times, they do not recognize when they have gone too far or are being rude and insensitive. I have a close friend who has real issues tied up with women. He was emotionally abused by women at a young age and into adulthood and preyed on a lot over the years. He is the type who will bend over backwards for his male and female friends but he has no filter.

I have counseled him a lot over the years and he gets called out immediately when he makes comments and you have to explain why they were bad.

I do not want to cut out good people who need the help and friendship that gaming provides with blanket directives to drive them out of the hobby.

Predators and bad actors need to be thrown out though.

 

[GrimCo]

10 posts per page has got to be the most miserable experience.

It's legible enough.

I would argue that we have a moral imperative to do more than simply choosing not to associate with such people, as individuals, but to (a) counter their messaging and (b) deliberately ostracize them until they are driven out of the hobby entirely. Any claims towards inclusivity are hollow without these steps.

Morality is subject of a debate i won't touch with 11 foot pole. Personally, i'm live and let die person. But out of curiosity, how can you remove someone from hobby? Sure, you can ban someone from convention. But- they can organize their own. You can ban them from your table, but not from every table. Same with publishing- you can't really forbid someone to publish stuff ( so long as everything is legal), nor can you prevent someone from buying that product.

TTRPG-s are decentralised hobby. There isn't one governing body that can remove someone from it.

 

[TiQuinn]

Personally, i'm live and let die person.

You’re James Bond?

 

[Micah Sweet]

You’re James Bond?

Or possibly Axel Rose?

 

[GrimCo]

You’re James Bond?

James Bond from Temu

Forgot to add. Every table, every gaming group is community for itself. That's the beauty of this hobby.

 

[Azzy]

I doubt that sexism will ever be banished.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Or possibly Axel Rose?

The GnR version is better anyways

 

[tetrasodium]

It's legible enough.

Morality is subject of a debate i won't touch with 11 foot pole. Personally, i'm live and let die person. But out of curiosity, how can you remove someone from hobby? Sure, you can ban someone from convention. But- they can organize their own. You can ban them from your table, but not from every table. Same with publishing- you can't really forbid someone to publish stuff ( so long as everything is legal), nor can you prevent someone from buying that product.

TTRPG-s are decentralised hobby. There isn't one governing body that can remove someone from it.

That bold bit can be done easily as long as you define "the hobby" in a way that also is likely to aid in avoiding a toxic walled garden. Gaming at FLGS/Libraries/Etc is pretty common.. I might have some unique regional aspects here, but I don't think that they are likely to matter in the case of blacklisting problem individuals. Simply bringing it up to the shop staff or equivalent organizers tends to work pretty well. I've seen two individuals who were blacklisted in some form & both were taken with appropriate seriousness.

 

[Gradine]

Not everyone wants to be an activist, and IMO you shouldn't have to be. That philosophy can easily be extended to many, many issues beyond sexist content in RPGs.

Oh, I wholeheartedly agree that I shouldn't have to be. But I do, have to be. And honestly, others do too. Without it, this hobby isn't at all safe for me to be in. Hell, it still isn't. I was getting death threats on X when it was called X. I got threatening phone calls to my personal phone last week, that I am forced to believe was related to my posting on ENWorld.

That's why I have to be an activist on this. And it's why you all do too. There is no fence to sit on. Either you tolerate this behavior or you don't.

 

[Gradine]

Morality is subject of a debate i won't touch with 11 foot pole. Personally, i'm live and let die person.

Sure. But recognize who you are letting die in this situation.

But out of curiosity, how can you remove someone from hobby? Sure, you can ban someone from convention. But- they can organize their own. You can ban them from your table, but not from every table. Same with publishing- you can't really forbid someone to publish stuff ( so long as everything is legal), nor can you prevent someone from buying that product.

Sure, but they can driven to the deep dark corners of the internet, where they can't harm anybody and they see their numbers increasingly dwindle. It's why, I suspect, every once in a while one will wriggle out to dip their toes in a place like this.

Incidentally, pre-Musk, Twitter was actually doing a pretty good job of this for such a huge platform.