D&D General Playstyle vs Mechanics

[Oofta]

And ... we're off to the races again with the 2014 backgrounds.

It all really just boils down to personal preference and style of world building. Want a contact anywhere and everywhere you go? More power to you. For me? I couldn't take that campaign seriously and it would be groan inducing. Then again, some people like cooked carrots and I only like them raw. It's just, repeat after me, a personal subjective preference that is no reflection on anyone else's tastes.

 

[hawkeyefan]

And ... we're off to the races again with the 2014 backgrounds.

It all really just boils down to personal preference and style of world building. Want a contact anywhere and everywhere you go? More power to you. For me? I couldn't take that campaign seriously and it would be groan inducing. Then again, some people like cooked carrots and I only like them raw. It's just, repeat after me, a personal subjective preference that is no reflection on anyone else's tastes.

So while you claim to not be talking crap about others' games, here you are talking crap. And if anyone does anything remotely like this about descriptions of your games, you never let it go.

So, here's the thing. I don't say what you prefer can't be taken seriously or that it's groan inducing. I try not to pass judgment on it in any way. I may say that it's about control or something you disagree with, but I am saying that only as an assessment of its description. But I really try not to pass judgment or describe how little I'd enjoy such a game or anything like that.

That aside... you can't think of any literary characters who knew people? Who had contacts when they went places who could help them out? Is it really that hard to imagine such a person to exist? Is such an advantage really that game altering?

 

[Micah Sweet]

So while you claim to not be talking crap about others' games, here you are talking crap. And if anyone does anything remotely like this about descriptions of your games, you never let it go.

So, here's the thing. I don't say what you prefer can't be taken seriously or that it's groan inducing. I try not to pass judgment on it in any way. I may say that it's about control or something you disagree with, but I am saying that only as an assessment of its description. But I really try not to pass judgment or describe how little I'd enjoy such a game or anything like that.

That aside... you can't think of any literary characters who knew people? Who had contacts when they went places who could help them out? Is it really that hard to imagine such a person to exist? Is such an advantage really that game altering?

First of all, you're absolutely right about being non-judgemental, and I apologize for anything I've posted that said otherwise.

Secondly, I think your description of the PC for whom this sort of ability would work well for as a "literary character" is a key point. If you don't see the game as telling a story (as I do not), you probably don't see your PC as a literary character, either, even if you used literature as inspiration to help create them.

 

[Oofta]

So while you claim to not be talking crap about others' games, here you are talking crap. And if anyone does anything remotely like this about descriptions of your games, you never let it go.

So, here's the thing. I don't say what you prefer can't be taken seriously or that it's groan inducing. I try not to pass judgment on it in any way. I may say that it's about control or something you disagree with, but I am saying that only as an assessment of its description. But I really try not to pass judgment or describe how little I'd enjoy such a game or anything like that.

That aside... you can't think of any literary characters who knew people? Who had contacts when they went places who could help them out? Is it really that hard to imagine such a person to exist? Is such an advantage really that game altering?

I said I couldn't take it seriously where someone has a contact wherever they go because I couldn't. Am I supposed to lie about that? And just as important why does it matter? If it doesn't matter to you, it doesn't.

Someone may have many contacts. But not absolutely everywhere you go. Fundamentally it comes down to who decides details about the world. Which is ... wait for it ... a preference.

 

[pemerton]

So if I push really, really hard I can win the lottery tomorrow?

That doesn't even make sense. What is to to "push hard" in a lottery? I'm talking about action declarations, of the sort that a player might make for a character in a RPG.

I also don't see what any of this has to do with the definition of "metagaming" that you set out upthread. Spending a point so that my impassioned plea moves a NPC to aid me doesn't involve anything beyond the words and deeds of my PC (namely, the making of an impassioned plea).

 

[pemerton]

What benefit do you gain from assuming that people whose opinions on this matter differ from yours are actually denigrating your playstyle rather than merely disagreeing with it?

I don't know what you mean by "disagreeing with a playstyle", nor how you contrast that with "denigrating a playstyle".

Like, I don't particularly enjoy K-pop music, but it wouldn't make any sense to say that I disagree with it.

In any event, what I was replying to was a comment about "improbable nonsense". And the point I was making is that, when someone tells me that a certain way of establishing fiction produces improbable nonsense, I can only assume they're talking about their RPGing. Because I know they're not talking about mine!

 

[mamba]

"Makes sense," like "improbable" or "nonsense," is going to be very much in the eye of the beholder, innit?

only to a degree

all sorts of coincidences seem plausible and appropriate.

no, that is exactly what I was talking about when I said that there is no creative challenge here, you can always come up with some highly improbable nonsense to explain it. All it takes is suspension of disbelief

 

[pemerton]

No, it just means we have different point of view. I don't understand why you keep insisting that if someone doesn't like something you do that you're being insulted. All of these issues are subjective and personal.

If someone tells me that the fiction I'm creating in my RPGing is improbable nonsense, I assume that they mean what they say.

Conversely, if someone does not think that there is anyone who is producing improbable nonsense, then why even mention that possibility?

 

[mamba]

The challenge is that myself and I expect hawkeye can often come up with plausible, appropriate reasons.

I doubt that very much

It need not be improbable. It certainly shouldn’t be nonsense.

it basically invariably is however

I just have to push back against this idea that the players can never contribute anything beyond their character,

that is not what I said, I just said they cannot always run into an old acquaintance, no matter where they are

 

[pemerton]

I entirely agree with that point. What I found interesting is that we seem to wildly diverge on what one can infer from that point regarding what elements of fiction D&D players care about. You said you inferred that a lot of players care only about the trappings of fiction, whereas I would infer they care about the core essence of fiction. I found that difference fascinating, since it suggests we view fiction quite differently.

I think you know what I mean by "trappings" - eg with reference to Earthsea, fictional elements (or if you prefer, "story elements") like dragons, wizards, magic schools, gebbeths, etc.

I think we agree that D&D play - at least as per the "classic" mode - won't produce a sequence of events that orders these elements ("trappings") in something like the way they are ordered in the Earthsea books.

I think we also agree that it's even more true that D&D play probably won't produce a sequence of events in which the occurrence and ordering of these elements produces a story with the rise, fall, climax, theme, resolution etc of the Earthsea books (or something like them).

I'm not sure what you mean by "core essence of fiction", though.