D&D (2024) Best and Worst Classes Lvl 1-10.

[mellored]

Yeah. That's right. Channel divinity now recharges better. There are other ways to get advantage though.

2 at most. You just start with a jump...

Which is it now. Ranger or paladin?

We where talking about spiked growth. So I'll stick with ranger for now.

2 spiked growths + 3 hunters marks will beat out action surge.
Which leaves 4* (2d8+3) = 48 healing from cure wounds.

Vs the 42 healing fighter has at level 5, 47 with the 16 Con.

Fighter has it as a bonus action instead of an action, but can't heal allies.

But a long bow does.

Ensnaring Stike works wonders on flying creatures.

Also Tridents.

At level 10 it is 4 times already. Also short rests. So 15.5*4 = 62.

Right. 4th use is at 10.

And even the champion has remarkable athlete. And all of them can use second wind for all kinds of skills.

Ranger can also trade cure wounds for other effects too.
Plus they have expertise, and climb and swim.

Great weapon master. Works for long bows too. Should look up the new 2024 rules.

It also boost Str, not Dex.
And is still less damage than hunters mark until level 10.

You don't really need polearm master. Trantmonk did the math for polearm master recently.

He did it for the ranger as well. They do the most damage at low levels.

But again. Things are a lot closer than before.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

We where talking about spiked growth. So I'll stick with ranger for now.

Ok. Stick with that.

2 spiked growths + 3 hunters marks will beat out action surge.

Maybe. Fighter has a lot of power in subclasses. As does the ranger.

Good that hunter's mark and spiked growth don't stack. But HM is always useful. The other ranger spells are situationally useful. People saying the ranger sucks are not paying attention. At least till level 19.

Which leaves 4* (2d8+3) = 48 healing from cure wounds.

Vs the 42 healing fighter has at level 5, 47 with the 16 Con.

Fighter has it as a bonus action instead of an action, but can't heal allies.

Yes.

Ensnaring Stike works wonders on flying creatures.

As does trip attack from the battle master (granted, it is a subclass ability).

Also Tridents.

Which fighters can use too. If they are close enough. Actually it is more probable that the fighter has mastery in great sword, trident and bow than the ranger.

Right. 4th use is at 10.

Ranger can also trade cure wounds for other effects too.
Plus they have expertise,

Competing against tactical mind. But yes. Rangers until level 10 are great. A bit Mad. But great.

and climb and swim.

Which just allows you to not half your movement speed.

It also boost Str, not Dex.

Which is good. Because it is your secondary weapon.

And is still less damage than hunters mark until level 10.

Yes. Until 9. But close enough before then.

He did it for the ranger as well. They do the most damage at low levels.

But again. Things are a lot closer than before.

But again. I did not say anything else. You were the one stating that the fighter is a weaker paladin...

So I'd say, all 4 classes are very close to each other. I really think the fighter is not tge weakest. Especially with the right subclass.

 

[Zardnaar]

It shows a combination of their survival and damage.

3d8+12 = 25.5 dpr
+ 42.5 per short rest

4d6+8 = 22 dpr
+22 per short rest.

Nope. Monk deals more damage.
Fighter has more HP (with second wind).


Outside a white room, monk can shoot and Dash/Disengage, maybe hide in magical darkness.

Cherry picked level 5. That's a great level for Monks.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yeah. That's right. Channel divinity now recharges better. There are other ways to get advantage though.

2 at most. You just start with a jump...

Which is it now. Ranger or paladin?
So the ranger is also good at range, the paladin can heal?

But a long bow does.

At level 10 it is 4 times already. Also short rests. So 15.5*4 = 62.

As are either battlemaster maneuvers (if you take some out of combat ones) or eldritch knight spells or psi warriors abilities. And even the champion has remarkable athlete. And all of them can use second wind for all kinds of skills.

Great weapon master. Works for long bows too. Should look up the new 2024 rules.
You don't really need polearm master. Trantmonk did the math for polearm master recently. Does not look too good. Great Weapon Master at 4 is all you need. A long bow has 150 ft range which usually is enough. And you don't really want to shoot at close range or into melee. This is what you use your great sword for. So sharpshooter is a waste of a feat.

So anecdotical evidence now?

Treantmonks builds a lot of them weren't very good and some of the assumptions he made are very iffy.

Polearm master stacks with GWM for example. Cleave ability is also better than graze.

Hell I think a maul is better than Greatsword.

White room is exactly that I've recently seen polearms doing more danage due to reach for example.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Cherry picked level 5. That's a great level for Monks.

That is what you often see in analyses. Cheery picking.

And often neglecring seemingly minor aspects like MAD vs SAD.

A paladin in 2e seemed more powerful than a fighter. But if you had to roll 4d6 assign to taste, putting that precious 17 into CHA instead of a combat stat meant that you were way worse at combat...

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Treantmonks builds a lot of them weren't very good and some of the assumptions he made are very iffy.

Yes.

Polearm master stacks with GWM for example.

Only to some extent. The bonus action attack does not get the bonus damage. And both feats overlap.

Cleave ability is also better than graze.

I tend to agree.

Hell I think a maul is better than Greatsword.

I do too.

White room is exactly that I've recently seen polearms doing more danage due to reach for example.

Yes. They can do. Both routes are great. I think however at level 4 is the sweetest spot for PAM. After that the damage increase is not that much. And then, at level 4 probaby you get a bonus attack from GWM mkre often than at later levels, as your opponents tend to die more easily. And you probably need your bonus action for second wind more often too.
And at level 5, tactical shift is also a great way to spend your bonus action. So i guess PAM ia nice to have. But not essential.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yes.

Only to some extent. The bonus action attack does not get the bonus damage. And both feats overlap.

I tend to agree.

I do too.

Yes. They can do. Both routes are great. I think however at level 4 is the sweetest spot for PAM. After that the damage increase is not that much. And then, at level 4 probaby you get a bonus attack from GWM mkre often than at later levels, as your opponents tend to die more easily. And you probably need your bonus action for second wind more often too.
And at level 5, tactical shift is also a great way to spend your bonus action. So i guess PAM ia nice to have. But not essential.

Well polearm master you woukd probably take +1 AC style over the great weapon one which is better with 2d6.

Also depends on how DM runs there games. I allow limited purchasing of magic items eg common and uncommon.
Tier 2 you can get a curated rare item.

Going in blind random DM, published adventures spears, swords, daggers, bows are appealing.

Barbarian I'm leaning towards a polearm, fighter depends but maul over greatsword.

Sword and board don't bother unless paladin or shillelagh EK.

Dual wield or heavy weapon basically. GWM feat medium armor 14 dex you're not to bad with a bow as a back up.

 

[mellored]

Cherry picked level 5. That's a great level for Monks.

More the middle of your range than anything else.

Also it's better for fighters.

Level 4
2d6+4+2 = 13
3x(1d6+4) = 22.5

Level 5
2x(2d6+4+3) = 28, 115% increase
4x(1d8+4) = 34, 51% increase

But again. Feel free to do your own math if you don't like mine.

 

[mellored]

Rangers until level 10 are great. A bit Mad. But great.

Agreed. Slightly etter than Fighters from 1-10.

You were the one stating that the fighter is a weaker paladin...

I'm mathed out at the moment, but feel free to calculate how smite holds up to action surge.

May need to cast cure wounds once to match the fighter HP and smite the rest.

 

[FrogReaver]

Agreed. Slightly etter than Fighters from 1-10.

I'm mathed out at the moment, but feel free to calculate how smite holds up to action surge.

May need to cast cure wounds once to match the fighter HP and smite the rest.

Action Surge vs Smite level 2 to 10

• (2) 2d6+3+1 @ 60% = +6.6 Damage per short rest vs +27 Damage per long rest = 2d8 x3.
  Break even = 27/6.6 - 1 = 4.1 - 1 = 3.1 Short Rests
• (3) 2d6+3+1 @ 60% = +6.6 Damage per short rest vs +36 Damage per long rest = 2d8 x4.
  Break even = 36/6.6 - 1 = 5.5 - 1 = 4.5 Short Rests
• (4) 2d6+4+3+1 @ 60% = +9 Damage per short rest vs +36 Damage per long rest = 2d8 x4.
  Break even = 36/9 - 1 = 4.0 - 1 = 3.0 Short Rests
• (5) 2d6+4+3+1 x2 @ 60% = +18 Damage per short rest vs +72 Damage per long rest = 2d8 x4.
  Break even = 72/18 - 1 = 4.0 - 1 = 3.0 Short Rests

• (10) 2d6+5+4+1 x2 @ 60% = +20.4 Damage per short rest vs +112.5 Damage per long rest = 2d8 x4 + 3d8 x3 + 4d8 x2. Break even = 112.5/20.4 - 1 = 5.5 - 1 = 4.5 Short Rests

*Note Weapon Mastery would slightly favor action surge.
*Shining Smite likely adds more DPR than divine smite but wasn't factored in.
*It's unclear whether fighter subclass or paladin subclass adds more damage.