D&D (2024) Best and Worst Classes Lvl 1-10.

[UngeheuerLich]

Maybe. I've seen parties focusing heavy on damage or control not so much on tactical stuff.

In theory it works but die to 5E bloated hit point and damage you either want to kill stuff fast or lock it down.

Also getting a whole group on the same page to try it i imagine would be difficult.

And it would become repetitive. And what if enemies fly. Or jump?

 

[Zardnaar]

And it would become repetitive. And what if enemies fly. Or jump?

Depends if you're running pre published or DM metagames to some extent.

Flying encounters tend to be rare at least well designed ones.

My players generally have a 14 dexterity or so and use medium armor more. 1 less AC barely natters vs everything else. This might change in 2024 as (for example) you can action surge and throw spears in situations like that.

 

[mellored]

Not to the sane extent
Fighters beating most classes at combat except two barbarians.

Monk 5 vs fighter 5.
Monk, 18 dex, 14 con, with grappler (doesn't do much for this fight)
Fighter, 18 Ste, 16 con, with Great Weapon Master, using graze.

Figher, 17 AC, attacks with 2d6+4+3
25% chance to miss twice
50% chance to hit once dealing 14 - 14.5 deflect = 0 damage
25% chance to hit twice for 14 damage
= 3.5 damage per round.
38 HP - 14 damage action surge (use after you hit once)
Vs 14 HP = 4 rounds to kill the monk.


Monk, 17 AC, attacks with 1d8+4, 4 attacks per round.
8.5 * 4 * 50% = 17 damage a round.
Vs 49 HP + 3d10+15
= 80.5 total HP
= 4.7352941176 round to kill the fighter

Seems like the fighter would win a stand still and attack battle. But standing still isn't exactly playing to the monks strength.

Or the monk can just kite. The lower the damage per round (i.e. ranged) the longer they last.

 

[Zardnaar]

Monk 5 vs fighter 5.
Monk, 18 dex, 14 con, with grappler (doesn't do much for this fight)
Fighter, 18 Ste, 16 con, with Great Weapon Master, using graze.

Figher, 17 AC, attacks with 2d6+4+3
25% chance to miss twice
50% chance to hit once dealing 14 - 14.5 deflect = 0 damage
25% chance to hit twice for 14 damage
= 3.5 damage per round.
38 HP - 14 damage action surge (use after you hit once)
Vs 14 HP = 4 rounds to kill the monk.


Monk, 17 AC, attacks with 1d8+4, 4 attacks per round.
8.5 * 4 * 50% = 17 damage a round.
Vs 49 HP + 3d10+15
= 80.5 total HP
= 4.7352941176 round to kill the fighter

Seems like the fighter would win a stand still and attack battle. But standing still isn't exactly playing to the monks strength.

Or the monk can just kite. The lower the damage per round (i.e. ranged) the longer they last.

Bad example. In a real gane the fighter also has lots of second winds greatswords aren't all that (this fight use a maul), no subclasses.

Monks als good but it's not all that tier 1 vs different classes.

Precise strike 1st attack, maybe knocked prone. If knocked prone action surge 3 more attacks with advantage.

I rate melee characters knocking prone quite highly. Monk can do something similar tbh.

 

[mellored]

Depends on the subclass. A battlemaster refreshes everything on a short rest.

As does paladins Channel Divinity.
Getting advantage on every attack is better than 4 Precision attacks.

I read it deals 2d4 damage per 5ft travelled. How do you get 8d4 damage? They can at least jump a few feet.

20' radius
/5'
= 4 ticks. *2d4
= 8d4.

Ok. So maybe not perfectly centered on them.

Ot they just stand still and hit you with a ranged attack.

And the ranger can do that too.
with a heavy crossbow.

Disrupting your concentration. It can be good against some creatures. But against otgers it might do nothing at all.

Sure. Does nothing against flying creatures.
But neither does a greatsword.

Fighter gets 1d10+fighter level. Up to 4 times per day. And one extra per short rest. This is 25*4 without a short rest.

We are talking 1-10.
Which is max of 15*3 = 45
Paladin has 50. Not counting spells.

Right. But it competes with damage spells.

Spells are flexible.

While fighters can focus on Str or Dex and a second stat of their choice. Perhabs constitution. Or both Str and Dex. So they can use a bow and a great sword.

So you want them to take polearm master at 4 and sharpshooter at 6?

Never seen that happen.

 

[mellored]

Bad example.

quick example.

In a real gane the fighter also has lots of second winds greatswords aren't all that (this fight use a maul), no subclasses.

I added in the second wind. Fighter would of lost without them.

Precise strike 1st attack, maybe knocked prone

Shadow monk can have advantage and give disadvantage. No maybe.

But then you need to calculate the chance of losing concentration, and the Fighter knocking prone. And the chance of who goes first.
And determine the starting distance.

If you want to run those numbers go ahead.

 

[Zardnaar]

quick example.

I added in the second wind. Fighter would of lost without them.

Shadow monk can have advantage and give disadvantage. No maybe.

But then you need to calculate the chance of losing concentration, and the Fighter knocking prone. And the chance of who goes first.
And determine the starting distance.

If you want to run those numbers go ahead.

Na pointless example as they're not fighting each other in a real game.

New Monks good, new fighters good. Fighter will win on damage most of the time imho monk has extra stuff to pile on top.

Outside a white room Monks a lot worse than fighter at range. Much like barbarians they're pigeonholed into melee. Even worse than 2014.

 

[mellored]

Na pointless exampke as they're not fighting each other in a real game.

It shows a combination of their survival and damage.

New Monks good, new fighters good. Fighter will win on danage most of the time imho monk has extra stuff to pile on top.

3d8+12 = 25.5 dpr
+ 42.5 per short rest

4d6+8 = 22 dpr
+22 per short rest.

Nope. Monk deals more damage.
Fighter has more HP (with second wind).

Outside a white room Monks a lot worse than fighter at range. Much like barbarians they're pigeonholed into melee. Even worse than 2014.

Outside a white room, monk can shoot and Dash/Disengage, maybe hide in magical darkness.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

As does paladins Channel Divinity.
Getting advantage on every attack is better than 4 Precision attacks.

Yeah. That's right. Channel divinity now recharges better. There are other ways to get advantage though.

20' radius
/5'
= 4 ticks. *2d4
= 8d4.

2 at most. You just start with a jump...

Ok. So maybe not perfectly centered on them.

And the ranger can do that too.
with a heavy crossbow.

Which is it now. Ranger or paladin?
So the ranger is also good at range, the paladin can heal?

Sure. Does nothing against flying creatures.
But neither does a greatsword.

But a long bow does.

We are talking 1-10.
Which is max of 15*3 = 45
Paladin has 50. Not counting spells.

At level 10 it is 4 times already. Also short rests. So 15.5*4 = 62.

Spells are flexible.

As are either battlemaster maneuvers (if you take some out of combat ones) or eldritch knight spells or psi warriors abilities. And even the champion has remarkable athlete. And all of them can use second wind for all kinds of skills.

So you want them to take polearm master at 4 and sharpshooter at 6?

Great weapon master. Works for long bows too. Should look up the new 2024 rules.
You don't really need polearm master. Trantmonk did the math for polearm master recently. Does not look too good. Great Weapon Master at 4 is all you need. A long bow has 150 ft range which usually is enough. And you don't really want to shoot at close range or into melee. This is what you use your great sword for. So sharpshooter is a waste of a feat.

Never seen that happen.

So anecdotical evidence now?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

It shows a combination of their survival and damage.

3d8+12 = 25.5 dpr
+ 42.5 per short rest

4d6+8 = 22 dpr
+22 per short rest.

Nope. Monk deals more damage.
Fighter has more HP (with second wind).


Outside a white room, monk can shoot and Dash/Disengage, maybe hide in magical darkness.

Outside a white room both are probably quite well balanced against each other and good against different enemies and for different roles.