D&D (2024) Best and Worst Classes Lvl 1-10.

[Zardnaar]

Action Surge vs Smite level 2 to 10

• (2) 2d6+3+1 @ 60% = +6.6 Damage per short rest vs +27 Damage per long rest = 2d8 x3.
  Break even = 27/6.6 - 1 = 4.1 - 1 = 3.1 Short Rests
• (3) 2d6+3+1 @ 60% = +6.6 Damage per short rest vs +36 Damage per long rest = 2d8 x4.
  Break even = 36/6.6 - 1 = 5.5 - 1 = 4.5 Short Rests
• (4) 2d6+4+3+1 @ 60% = +9 Damage per short rest vs +36 Damage per long rest = 2d8 x4.
  Break even = 36/9 - 1 = 4.0 - 1 = 3.0 Short Rests
• (5) 2d6+4+3+1 x2 @ 60% = +18 Damage per short rest vs +72 Damage per long rest = 2d8 x4.
  Break even = 72/18 - 1 = 4.0 - 1 = 3.0 Short Rests

• (10) 2d6+5+4+1 x2 @ 60% = +20.4 Damage per short rest vs +112.5 Damage per long rest = 2d8 x4 + 3d8 x3 + 4d8 x2. Break even = 112.5/20.4 - 1 = 5.5 - 1 = 4.5 Short Rests

*Note Weapon Mastery would slightly favor action surge.
*Shining Smite likely adds more DPR than divine smite but wasn't factored in.
*It's unclear whether fighter subclass or paladin subclass adds more damage.

Overall gut probably fighter level 1-5 over, 6-10 Paladin and fighter at 11 gets big boost.

Not in terns of damage but best class. Avenger vs Battlenaster for best 2 face off.

 

[FrogReaver]

Overall gut probably fighter level 1-5 over, 6-10 Paladin and fighter at 11 gets big boost.

Not in terns of damage but best class. Avenger vs Battlenaster for best 2 face off.

Fighters are more durable early than Paladins. But Paladins can heal their allies. I think they are mostly equal level 1-4, maybe a slight nudge to fighter since he's also better at skills. I think vengeance paladins clearly pull ahead level 5-10.

 

[Zardnaar]

Fighters are more durable early than Paladins. But Paladins can heal their allies. I think they are mostly equal level 1-4, maybe a slight nudge to fighter since he's also better at skills. I think vengeance paladins clearly pull ahead level 5-10.

Yeah that's my feeling as well.

 

[FrogReaver]

My top 2 level 1-10
Druid
Cleric

Next best
Wizard
Sorcerer
Bard

Next best
Fighter
Barbarian
Paladin
Ranger
Rogue

My bottom 2 level 1-10
Warlock
Monk

Couldn't make them fit into a top 4 and bottom 4 list.

A brief explanation.
Druid and Cleric - both get good damage, control and utility options. They are self sufficient with good AC as well as healing. They both will have a high Wisdom, which is good for many very important skills.

Wizard, Sorcerer, Bard - Similar to the Druid and Cleric except lower AC. Charisma or Intelligence is usually just as good as Wisdom for skills (albeit not saves).

Fighter, Barbarian, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue - These are all some combination of damage, skills and spells, with various levels of mobility. Some of these may be slightly better than the others, but overall they are all really close in power.

Warlock and Monk - Monk is too combat focused and then doesn't clearly excel at that role. His claim to fame is really mobility and stunning a single target, which in 2024 he isn't even great at anymore due to one stun per turn. He did get a bit better damage to compensate. Warlock is still far too dependent on short rests, with too few uses per short rest. His spell list is also really lacking.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Overall gut probably fighter level 1-5 over, 6-10 Paladin and fighter at 11 gets big boost.

Not in terns of damage but best class. Avenger vs Battlenaster for best 2 face off.

Using all smites, the base paladin is slightly ahead in melee damage. Does not seem inappropriate.

Edit: @FrogReaver:

Did you factor in, that the fighter can max out Str before level 10 adding just feats?

 

[FrogReaver]

So I'd say, all 4 classes are very close to each other. I really think the fighter is not tge weakest. Especially with the right subclass.

I assume Battlemaster is that subclass?
What Paladin subclass do you think is the best?
What about Ranger subclass?
What was the 4th class in question? Monk or Barbarian?

*For levels 1-10 obviously

 

[FrogReaver]

On Polearm Master

• PAM 1d10+5 x2 + 1d4+5 = 28.5
• GWM 2d6+5+3 x2 = 30 **actually a bit higher due to bonus action attack on crit or kill
• Combined 1d10+5+3 x2 +1d4+5 = 34.5

Of course the biggest factors are what other bonus actions you have and how often you will trigger the PAM reaction attack and the GWM bonus attack.

Also important, if you ever swap to a longbow, then GWM benefits your range damage as well.

Conclusion is that it's probably not worth the investment into both PAM and GWM.

Using all smites, the base paladin is slightly ahead in melee damage. Does not seem inappropriate.

Edit: @FrogReaver:
Did you factor in, that the fighter can max out Str before level 10 adding just feats?

I didn’t calc level 6 and 7 which is the only level that would matter. Levels 8-10 they would both have maxed str.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

On Polearm Master

• PAM 1d10+5 x2 + 1d4+5 = 28.5
• GWM 2d6+5+3 x2 = 30 **actually a bit higher due to bonus action attack on crit or kill
• Combined 1d10+5+3 x2 +1d4+5 = 34.5

Of course the biggest factors are what other bonus actions you have and how often you will trigger the PAM reaction attack and the GWM bonus attack.

Fighters can easily have both if they want.

Also important, if you ever swap to a longbow, then GWM benefits your range damage as well.

I would not skip GWM as a TWF. I'd even consider it on a sword and board fighter that occasionally attacks with a long bow. Hew works with any melee weapon.

Conclusion is that it's probably not worth the investment into both PAM and GWM.

Probably not. But depending on your build and party setup, the extra mobility (hit from 10ft and move from enemy to enemy) might be nice.

I didn’t calc level 6 and 7 which is the only level that would matter. Levels 8-10 they would both have maxed str.

At level 8 - 10 the fighter has max strength while having chosen three feats. The paladin has max strength by chosing one feat and +2 strength.

So at level 8 the fighter could have the charger feat and PAM if you really want it. I'd recommend mage slayer. Or Heavy armor mastery for more effective HP. Yes, the fighter is at Str 19 for two more levels. But at a level whre the paladin is still at 18.

So any calculation that does not make use of the extra feat is flawed.

Since a fighter only needs one high stat, they really have an excessive number of feats. Everything beyond level 8 is extra versatility.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I assume Battlemaster is that subclass?

Yes.

What Paladin subclass do you think is the best?

Probably vengeance due to access to easy advantage, and hunter's mark on top of divine favor with a bit of setup. Especially after level 6 where you can keep concenteation more easily.
And if you read the TWF style as people read it early 2014, which allows to turn all dice that roll 1 or 2 to a 3. Which was only sage advice nerfed in 2014 because it was just too good. The nerfed version of 2024 (3 instead of reroll) delivers very reasonable results: +3/m damage per die, where m is the maximum roll.

What about Ranger subclass?

Difficult. Until level 10 I don't hate the hunter. Also not bad with a great sword (and TWF style) usually using giant slayer, or my favoirite: Horde breaker using a greataxe and archery fighting style: GWM at level 4 allows you to use your bow as if you had 18 dex. In melee you attack your main target, Horde breaker into the secondary target and cleave right back into your main target. All of those attacks get +prof bonus damage as they are part of the attack action.

What was the 4th class in question? Monk or Barbarian?

Monk was talked about.

I think the barbarian also fits nicely into the mix. Until level 10, they are also top notch damage dealers. After that it depends on the subclass.
I am a bit disappointed actually that you can't forgo one source of advantage to use brutal strike. Seems a bit disheartening to give enemies advantage against you and remove your advantage just to deal a few more points of damage. I am ok, that you can't gan advantage on the strike, but I had just made the ability independent of reckless attack.

*For levels 1-10 obviously

 

[FrogReaver]

Fighters can easily have both if they want.

I would not skip GWM as a TWF. I'd even consider it on a sword and board fighter that occasionally attacks with a long bow. Hew works with any melee weapon.

Probably not. But depending on your build and party setup, the extra mobility (hit from 10ft and move from enemy to enemy) might be nice.

Sure but the question really is why would they want both, instead of something like resilient wisdom.

At level 8 - 10 the fighter has max strength while having chosen three feats. The paladin has max strength by chosing one feat and +2 strength.

Sure. But no save aura. No power through spell versatility is being factored in either.

So at level 8 the fighter could have the charger feat and PAM if you really want it. I'd recommend mage slayer. Or Heavy armor mastery for more effective HP. Yes, the fighter is at Str 19 for two more levels. But at a level whre the paladin is still at 18.

Sure or he could have GWM, max str and resilient Wis. That would be my suggested setup.

Also, fighters don’t get an extra feat 10th. That’s rogues. Fighters are 6 and 14.

So any calculation that does not make use of the extra feat is flawed.

I’m using it, just not for low impact offensive stuff.

Since a fighter only needs one high stat, they really have an excessive number of feats. Everything beyond level 8 is extra versatility.

My ideal fighter would have GWM, resilient wisdom, high str and dex.