D&D (2024) DMG 2024: Is The Sandbox Campaign Dead?

[Remathilis]

I haven't read through all the DMG, but given the tone of 5.5 and the obvious focus on purchasable adventures from WotC (the main point of backwards compatibility I believe), I expect you're right about this. I find it very disappointing, since sandbox emergent story play is personally my preferred style and I hate to think of new DMs not being exposed to it in the latest iteration of the game from which I learned about it. It is, I think, more efficient financially to focus on the big adventure path products, which are also easier to run (I freely admit doing sandbox "right" IME takes real effort). So I understand WotC's reasoning here. But to not mention it at all in the DMG is disheartening.

As far as what I would add: every game in Kevin Crawford's ...Without Number series includes an excellent essay explaining and in support of sandbox play, so I would start with something like that. I would additionally release a product (sooner rather than later) that discusses and focuses around the worldbuilding largely downplayed in the 5.5 DMG, including how that supports sandbox play and also including what mechanical changes to the game might facilitate that playstyle. The missing monster creation rules would be a good fit for this proposed product.

Please note that I am very much trying to be fair to WotC and to fans of its current offering here. These suggestions are just what I consider to be improvements to their game that would expose new DMs to what I believe to be a very fun playstyle, one worth preserving for new entrants into our amazing hobby.

I think there is a very open market for a campaign builders guidebook that expands on the DMG and gives tools and resources for making all types of campaigns. Encounter tables, dungeon traps, downtime activities, monster generation, puzzles and riddles, etc. You can have it discuss sandbox and linear play, world building, and such. It would even be a pretty decent 3pp product if WotC doesn't have interest. (Although if WotC wants to jazz it up and sell it, I'm sure a few new origins, monsters and traps would sweeten the pot).

 

[Remathilis]

I don't agree with you, sorry. I followed all the situation, i know this article cover only a part of the market, but i absolutely didn't agree with your conclusion.
I wait to see the real numbers from third parts source or the Q4 financial report from Hasbro.

Would saying D&D is dying finally get you to drop this tangent?

"D&D is dying".

 

[mamba]

It's crazy why people still wonder why WOTC does the bare minimum.

depending on the decision the amount of criticism can vary drastically however…

 

[TwoSix]

Yes, let's couch this discussion as bagging on WotC. That will surely help -- almost as much as turning it into a discussion about profits margins.

The subject is: will the lack of sandbox information in the 2024 DMG lead to a generation of people that come to D&D via 2024 NOT playing sandbox style games, or even knowing they exist?

Honestly, I think the lack of APs in a defined sandbox is much more harmful than anything in the DMG. The DMG is a lagging indicator for a shift that's already happening. And as we've seen with lots of other TTRPG approaches, if people aren't introduced to an idea via D&D, it will struggle to find more than niche reception.

You need to seek out OSR material if you want to find good sandbox support.

 

[Micah Sweet]

1. Lower power strategic struggles against the world
2. Middle power explorations in new wonders
3. High power pure power fantasy power trips

Base 5e is too heroic for 1 and lacks the random tables for 2.

Getting the random tables back for (2) and providing optional rules to better facilitate (1) would be excellent goals for the worldbuilding/sandbox product I proposed above.

 

[mamba]

I don't agree with you, sorry. I followed all the situation, i know this article cover only a part of the market, but i absolutely didn't agree with your conclusion.
I wait to see the real numbers from third parts source or the Q4 financial report from Hasbro.

you can do whatever you feel like, but that does not make what I wrote wrong

Do you really think that they lie about their sales numbers? They might present them in the best light, but if they say they outsold 3 years or 5e PHBs in print by now, then they did, and that does not mesh at all with a number that is clearly widely underreporting sales, surprise…

 

[Guest 85555]

I don't have the new DMG yet, just the PHB. But D&D DMGs have not typically been great at giving overviews of styles (a lot of the WOTC stuff always seems a little behind what is up-to-date and even back in teh TSR days I remember the 2E DMG was missing tons of content that they eventually released separately). But my impression is, and I could be wrong, that a lot of the WOTC adventure material has had more sandbox elements than in say the 2000s. Not using the term doesn't mean it isn't sandboxy (I released a sandbox adventure not too long ago and tried avoiding the label sandbox because I don't like it as a name for a play style). I'd say there seems to be more call now than ten or fifteen years ago for sandbox. There are plenty of other adventure structures and approaches too. D&D tends to lend itself to a wide range of styles so hopefully the new DMG provides a solid overview of all the possible approaches and doesn't just advocate for one

 

[Micah Sweet]

I agree that the way the DMG is written will shape the new people into following beginner adventures and then into scenario based campaigns.

The DMG also veers away from presenting guidance for use as a toolkit, leading to a reduction in "home campaigns" in groups of newbies.

However, and this is relevant to both the "sandbox" and the "toolkit" theory, as these newbie groups continue to play, I begin to hear things like "I'm going to create my own world", or "Well in my world I changed...". They are getting used to exploring their limits and testing the framework of the game.

So I agree with OP that the 2024 DMG is written in such a way that campaign books, or narrative arcs tend to be the "default.

BUT, sooner or later, a player or DM will say "whats over there?" or "lets solve this differently", and they will learn to adapt, and "sandbox" and "toolkit" style play will emerge organically.

That is an encouraging thought.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I think there is a very open market for a campaign builders guidebook that expands on the DMG and gives tools and resources for making all types of campaigns. Encounter tables, dungeon traps, downtime activities, monster generation, puzzles and riddles, etc. You can have it discuss sandbox and linear play, world building, and such. It would even be a pretty decent 3pp product if WotC doesn't have interest. (Although if WotC wants to jazz it up and sell it, I'm sure a few new origins, monsters and traps would sweeten the pot).

It would I think be a great product no matter who makes it, but if WotC did it it would get a lot more eyes on it, which I believe was the point of the OP.

 

[Firwood]

Would saying D&D is dying finally get you to drop this tangent?

"D&D is dying".

Totally unnecessary and inappropriate. Classic comment made just to give air to the mouth.
I NEVER SAID that D&D is going badly. I have disputed, and again confirm, that the numbers boasted by WOTC DO NOT HAVE A COUNTERPROOF.
Official documents (Q3 shareholder reports) make no mention of this huge success, and there are no sources to confirm what is claimed. In addition, Hsbro has been subjected to a class action lawsuit for false information designed to inflate the numbers. These are FACTS!
The rest are (respectable) opinions, but nothing more.
I've been playing D&D since 1985, and I'm just glad it continues to be successful. So keep the nonsense to yourself please.