Dragonlance "You walk down the road, party is now level 2."

[eyeheartawk]

And these kobolds.

You like Kobolds do you? Sit here and smoke a whole pack of 'em! See what you say then.

 

[Stalker0]

The concept of the first two levels being extremely fast isn't a mechanical issue, though it is a narrative one.


Ok lvls 1-2 are such easy levels that basically anyone blows through them with no issue. Fine....but now that means most people in the world are lvl3+.....so probably lvl 2 spells are extremely common....etc etc. and level 5 isn't all that hard to get, so ok lvl 3 spells are now pretty darn common, etc etc.

The simplest way to excuse it is, the PCs are just freakin weird. A normal person gets into a fight on the street, they run screaming home and vow never to cross that street again. A PC does it, and suddenly their muscles unlock martial techniques they didn't even know they had, they get knocked on the head and have a revelation about magical theory and suddenly certain spells just make sense.

PCs are just weird, they don't make sense, and that's why they are the ones that have to go save the day, because no one else gets that kind of sauce to be able to do it.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I'm kind of surprised people aren't more mad at paying $50 for half of an actual adventure, if even that. "It's level 1-10 but really it's 5-10."

We are paying for what we get. A couple hundred pages of an adventure. What they call the levels on the cover doesn't matter... we're paying $50 for what's inside it. If a person has a problem, they should read the table of contents and flip through the entire book before buying it so they see exactly what it is they are getting.

This is why we aren't upset. We're paying for a full adventure, we're just not concerning ourselves with what the book designates as which parts are which levels.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The concept of the first two levels being extremely fast isn't a mechanical issue, though it is a narrative one.


Ok lvls 1-2 are such easy levels that basically anyone blows through them with no issue. Fine....but now that means most people in the world are lvl3+.....so probably lvl 2 spells are extremely common....etc etc. and level 5 isn't all that hard to get, so ok lvl 3 spells are now pretty darn common, etc etc.

The simplest way to excuse it is, the PCs are just freakin weird. A normal person gets into a fight on the street, they run screaming home and vow never to cross that street again. A PC does it, and suddenly their muscles unlock martial techniques they didn't even know they had, they get knocked on the head and have a revelation about magical theory and suddenly certain spells just make sense.

PCs are just weird, they don't make sense, and that's why they are the ones that have to go save the day, because no one else gets that kind of sauce to be able to do it.

I can never accept the, "PCs are somehow in the setting different from NPCs of the same circumstances". To me they will always just be the folks the camera is pointed at.

 

[Stalker0]

I can never except the, "PCs are somehow in the setting different from NPCs of the same circumstances". To me they will always just be the folks the camera is pointed at.

sure, and unfortunately in that case PC early leveling just does not make sense. that's why in those cases I think its better to just have the pcs start at higher levels. then they obtained those levels through the entirety of their backstory, not because they got some milk at the supermarket.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

"Level 1" is literally walk down a road. Maybe fight 2-4 guys. DING Level 2. Even if I wasn't running Milestone there is no way to get XP for that aside from just handing them story xp for reasons.

This is basically how 5E works. The journey to 2nd level (and to a lesser extent 3rd) is intentionally much shorter and easier than the journey to higher levels.

You're objecting to a fundamental trait of 5E. You're not going to find any L1-3 adventure or setting which satisfies you on that basis.

You say "Is it normal now"? Dude, it was normal in 2014, over a decade ago. It's never been otherwise in 5E. Unless you played in a game with serious house rules about low-level XP, you've never played a 5E campaign which was any different.

I can never except the, "PCs are somehow in the setting different from NPCs of the same circumstances". To me they will always just be the folks the camera is pointed at.

Levels don't make sense with that approach at all. Only a skill-based system or similar is ever going to make sense with that attitude - Heroquest I think would serve you a thousand, thousand times better than D&D if that's genuinely how you feel about the PCs.

 

[Micah Sweet]

This is basically how 5E works. The journey to 2nd level (and to a lesser extent 3rd) is intentionally much shorter and easier than the journey to higher levels.

You're objecting to a fundamental trait of 5E. You're not going to find any L1-3 adventure or setting which satisfies you on that basis.

You say "Is it normal now"? Dude, it was normal in 2014, over a decade ago. It's never been otherwise in 5E. Unless you played in a game with serious house rules about low-level XP, you've never played a 5E campaign which was any different.


Levels don't make sense with that approach at all. Only a skill-based system or similar is ever going to make sense with that attitude - Heroquest I think would serve you a thousand, thousand times better than D&D if that's genuinely how you feel about the PCs.

No. Milestone XP doesn't make sense with that approach. Get XP for actually doing things and it does work.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

No. Milestone XP doesn't make sense with that approach. Get XP for actually doing things and it does work.

Nah.

It doesn't either way. It's such a short step to L2 and relatively short to L3 that huge numbers of NPCs, including pretty much anyone who has even been in a war, or acted as a peace officer/sherrif/bandit/anything like that should be at a minimum level 3 unless they're green as grass. And there should be a lot more NPCs of like "moderate" levels. Also, D&D's skill system makes no sense in a level-based context unless we're focusing on PCs as being special.

 

[Arnie_Wan_Kenobi]

I've always said that level 1 should be a stern conversation and a fight with a giant rat.

Can I have a stern conversation with the giant rat?

 

[Micah Sweet]

Nah.

It doesn't either way. It's such a short step to L2 and relatively short to L3 that huge numbers of NPCs, including pretty much anyone who has even been in a war, or acted as a peace officer/sherrif/bandit/anything like that should be at a minimum level 3 unless they're green as grass. And there should be a lot more NPCs of like "moderate" levels. Also, D&D's skill system makes no sense in a level-based context unless we're focusing on PCs as being special.

Agree to disagree.