Star Trek and Idealism vs cynicism

[bloodtide]

I think we see a bigger problem with all shows, and even IPs : How far can you go?

What is Star Trek? You could say it's an action adventure show about a ship exploring space. But that is very basic. Though if you dig deeper you will add it's about showing an idealistic future. And deeper as it is a social commentary. And even deeper to say it's about the true exploration of the human heart.

And sure, some episodes are just "look aliens pew pew pew" spam, and they can be entertaining. Plenty of Star Trek episodes show that utopian future. And more then a couple do the social commentary. And a few even touch on the heart.

And that is Star Trek. And most episodes have a good mix of the above....and the great episodes have the perfect mix.

Then you take the Setting though, or even the IP. It's a bunch of trademarked/copyrighted nouns.

So can you just pick a noun or two at random, slap together any random sci fi story around them, and have a Star Trek show/movie.

Well...no.

As they have shown us often in the recent past. Take a gritty, cool and CGI spam filled mess and just slap the label "Star Trek" on it ..... It does not work.

 

[WayneLigon]

Oh, my. The Culture setting is a dystopia where humans are essentially the pets of powerful God-like artificial intelligence. I think you're the first person I've run into who referred to it as an "apparently" utopian society.

I'm the second, then. There's nothing 'apparent' about it; it IS a utopia.

Star Trek is at it's best when it follows the assumption that what we think of as 'the basic human condition' can and will change. That we can and will be better and do better.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Starfleet Intelligence is a thing. They're considered a bit of a joke by the Romulan Tal Shiar and Cardassian Obsidian Order (but on the other hand they didn't get suckered into wiping themselves out by the Dominion). They seem a little under-funded - at one point the commandeer Miles O'Brien into a deep-cover operation despite him having no significant espionage training.

There was also the mission in TNG that led to the Four Lamps incident. I don't think Starfleet Intelligence have a staff, they just co-opt regular Starfleet officers with the relevant skills for the mission.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Naw, I'd say it's more like making James Bond the good guy (though, in theory, though a fictional character, he actually does far far worse than anything we've seen Section 31 do at times).

The IMF (Mission Impossible) is rather more obviously dubious. They recruit civilian operatives, they disregard all laws, the engage in brainwashing, media manipulation, framing people for crimes they did not commit, etc. And these are supposed to be the good guys.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I think we see a bigger problem with all shows, and even IPs : How far can you go?

I think the real problem is getting shows that are not IPs made, and then getting people to watch them. So we get lots of "don't really fit" ideas being shoehorned into one of the two big deep space franchises.

 

[Bedrockgames]

What is Star Trek? You could say it's an action adventure show about a ship exploring space.

This is for me the basic problem with a lot of the newer star trek I have seen: it isn't action. This is what turned me off to the reboots. Yes Star Trek always had some element of action to it but that was never, ever the focus. Star Wars is much more of a space action series than Star Trek. I love action. I like science fiction action. But it isn't what brings me to Star Trek

 

[Bedrockgames]

I



As they have shown us often in the recent past. Take a gritty, cool and CGI spam filled mess and just slap the label "Star Trek" on it ..... It does not work.

this but it goes beyond Star Trek

 

[Ryujin]

This is for me the basic problem with a lot of the newer star trek I have seen: it isn't action. This is what turned me off to the reboots. Yes Star Trek always had some element of action to it but that was never, ever the focus. Star Wars is much more of a space action series than Star Trek. I love action. I like science fiction action. But it isn't what brings me to Star Trek

Yup. Most Star Wars scripts could be written up using the cinematic rules for the TORG RPG, with Nile Empire Cosm Rules. Pretty much constant action, like an old 1930s serial. That isn't typically true of Star Trek. Additionally, even the action episodes of TOS had a moral, and it wasn't a hidden one. It was most often part of the exposition, so that even the really thick people would get it.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I think the real problem is getting shows that are not IPs made, and then getting people to watch them. So we get lots of "don't really fit" ideas being shoehorned into one of the two big deep space franchises.

Maybe they know something I don’t but what use is IP if you are turning off large chunks of the fan base. I get they need to also grow a new fan base but it seems like a lot of the marketing for these things tries to put old and new fans against each other rather than bring them together around a shared interest

 

[bloodtide]

This is for me the basic problem with a lot of the newer star trek I have seen: it isn't action. This is what turned me off to the reboots. Yes Star Trek always had some element of action to it but that was never, ever the focus. Star Wars is much more of a space action series than Star Trek. I love action. I like science fiction action. But it isn't what brings me to Star Trek

The big problem is the average non Star Trek fan, or worse the Star Trek hater, takes a look at a couple episodes and will say "oh, ok, whatever it's just people fighting in space with ships and laser gun pew pew". So, as that is what they think Star Trek is: that is what they make.

Plus the average Star Trek hater can watch the top ten Star Trek episodes and just be like "BORING! Needs more Pew PEW!"

I think the real problem is getting shows that are not IPs made, and then getting people to watch them. So we get lots of "don't really fit" ideas being shoehorned into one of the two big deep space franchises.

Very true. Most modern folks in charge are unwilling to take very much risk. They just want the 'free money of the sure thing'.

A couple years ago, super hero movies were not so hot. Then, really out of nowhere, some folks to a wild chance on a movie called Iron Man. And the MCU with that high money point of The Avengers. But it's not just 'super hero'. After all plenty have tossed up other super hero movies that have not done so great.

So unless your 'space movie/show' is based off one of the Star IP's, you will just get looked over.