D&D (2024) Githzerai Psion? Thri-kreen Psion? Where's My Psion?

Again that doesn't mean that we are not right. We are not representative because of our make-up and so it cannot be assumed that we are not correct, but that doesn't mean that we are not correct. The average player doesn't really take part in online polls, either.

Edit: That's a great example by the way. I really like wizards, sorcerers and warlocks. One class can fit all(be liked) even if we have a favorite(mine is wizard).
The wizards, sorcerers and warlocks situation proves my point.

WOTC play tested and all encompassing Mage class due to the grognard thought process of "All casters are the same"

The idea was rebuked soooo haaaard.

The community would not accept a Mage class that still maintained 5es core principles.

A Psion is the same. It's 3-4 classes fighting for 1 slot
 

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It's all about making it fit, because Romantacy is where future players are coming from, just as they came from Conan and Tolkien in the 1970s.

It doesn't mean you need to change your game, but WotC sure have to change theirs. And will have to change it again a few years down the line to take whatever the next big thing is into account.

Actually, romantacy aint that hard, it's just putting more emphasis on social situations and less on combat.
Changing your whole game every few years doesn't sound very practical from a business and publishing standpoint, and would also run the IMO serious risk of shedding part of your audience every time as you move away from what they like more quickly than has been the case in the past. And all of that assumes that WotC keeps making the choice correctly and maintains the kids' interest in whatever they're into at that point in time.
 

Don't need to change the game, just the types of adventures that are being produced.
the mechanics are not well built for it you can do a lot of things does not mean you can do it well, that and the adventure types would need to be refined.
what are the plots in these things beyond the romance aspect anyway?
The wizards, sorcerers and warlocks situation proves my point.

WOTC play tested and all encompassing Mage class due to the grognard thought process of "All casters are the same"

The idea was rebuked soooo haaaard.

The community would not accept a Mage class that still maintained 5es core principles.

A Psion is the same. It's 3-4 classes fighting for 1 slot
which 3-4 classes do you mean more or less?
 

This is, unfortunately, the key sticking point between class minimalists and...let's say "medianists" like me who want a larger but still constrained set.

Specifically, they reject the idea that it "will just suck" as a subclass. They think it will be perfectly adequate. Indeed, they may even consider the subclass itself a superfluous thing, undertaken only because having nothing that mechanically captures the idea (rather than doing so purely thematically or..."procedurally" for lack of a better term) would annoy other players.

Of course, I'm completely with you on this. There are some concepts that will execute on both the mechanical and thematic concept purely by being a subclass. For example, I'd say the Warlock does a very good job for covering the "touched by an angel" thematic and mechanical concept via the Celestial subclass, which kinda turns the class on its head relative to other Patrons, but in practice it works quite well and actually makes an extremely versatile character who can do a little bit of everything (especially in 5.5e, where pacts aren't exclusive.)

But there are other concepts that are simply too big to be compressed into the thin, meager space that subclasses permit. This is especially notable with classes where the base class is already suffused with features, such that making a too-powerful subclass would seriously disrupt game balance. The Fighter is a great example here, in that its base chassis has...a lot. There's a lot there. I'm not personally happy with the lot that is there, but my preferences are irrelevant to the question of whether there is a lot there or not. As a result of those things, it's hard to (for example) make a truly "support-heavy" subclass, because the Fighter is inherently starting from a high baseline of personal survival and personal damage output. (It's still behind other classes IMO, but 5.5e is at least trying to address that...even if it doesn't always succeed.)

And then there are some ideas that you can do a lesser/incomplete version as a subclass of another class, but you won't get the full impact without a proper class. My everpresent go-to for this is the Eldritch Knight versus the Wizard, and then analogizing that to the Battle Master versus the Warlord (or "Captain" or "Banneret" or "Torchbearer" or "Tactician" or whatever one likes if the term "Warlord" offends). That is, we live in a world where the Eldritch Knight is derived from the Wizard; it is explicitly and intentionally a lesser equivalent, a pale shadow of what a true arcane-focused learned spellcaster can be, albeit with dramatically more personal defensive and offensive capability. The Battle Master is to the Warlord what the Eldritch Knight is to the Wizard: a pale shadow of what a true Martial Tactics expert would be, albeit with dramatically more personal defensive and offensive capability.

The point of the previous passage (not that you need to hear any of this!) is merely to show that even if you establish that there already is a subclass for a concept (and thus doubly so if you merely assert that you could make such a subclass), that isn't enough to justify axing the concept. Nature Clerics exist alongside Druids. Battle Clerics exist alongside Paladins. Bards exist alongside Arcane Tricksters. Wizards exist alongside Eldritch Knights. Etc. The mere existence of a subclass analogous to a possible class, or a possible subclass analogous to a real or possible class, is not enough to say that a thing definitely shouldn't exist.
This is why I love 3pp. All of those concepts are full classes in the constellation of 5e content.
 

the mechanics are not well built for it you can do a lot of things does not mean you can do it well, that and the adventure types would need to be refined.
what are the plots in these things beyond the romance aspect anyway?
You can role play the encounters. If you are trying to turn social encounters into pseudo-combat with lots of rules, dice rolls and points scored you are kind of missing the appeal.

Stryxhaven tried to have some romantacy, one of the reasons they made the students college age rather than children. Obviously not entirely successful! Radiant Citadel and Golden Vault have a lot of scenarios with little or no combat. I've just run Affair on the Concordant Express involving minimal combat and the boss encounter resolved socially. Another Golden Vault adventure involves a fey ball, which would be an excellent place to slip in complications involving a PC's love life. And Infinite Staircase revived Beyond the Crystal Cave, the original D&D Romantasy adventure, for a modern audience.

And I've been asking myself, what type of adventure is the upcoming FR book going to focus on in the Dalelands chapter? Romantasy would seem a reasonable fit.
 


Changing your whole game every few years doesn't sound very practical from a business and publishing standpoint, and would also run the IMO serious risk of shedding part of your audience every time as you move away from what they like more quickly than has been the case in the past. And all of that assumes that WotC keeps making the choice correctly and maintains the kids' interest in whatever they're into at that point in time.
It certainly wasn't when WoTC came out with 4e and caused a bit of a split in its' audience by being so different from what came before it.

This is why I love 3pp. All of those concepts are full classes in the constellation of 5e content.
Agreed. :) Sometimes a 3pp comes up something novel that hadn't been thought of before in a previous RPG.
 

My opinion is Birthright could be a better option for a romantasy novel.

The key is not if we need a new class but if there is a enough number of roleplayers willing to spend their money for a class with a different game mechanic.

I like the psions because they are different from the standards critearia. They are like the smartest boy in the classroom, and he isn't understood and value by the rest of classmates. The idea of a halfling using telekinesis to impulse a jump and kick an ogre in the jaw is strange even for the D&D standars. The psions feel like foreigns in their own land. Even when wizards, sorcerers and warlocks were hard to be found at least they are known, but nobody knows about the psions.

There is a second way of poll and when a homemade idea is published in D&D beyond this can enjoy positive votes.

* The erudite (variant from the complete psionic) could be a playtesting demo class. You use the wizard and replace spell slots with a pool of power points.

* An esper (seer/clairesentience) could be an interesting nPC class. While she uses her powers to investigate and look for clues the PCs should procted her as bodyguards.

* I imagine the ardent is not like the "mystic" becuse she can wear armour but more limited to use psionic powers for especial movement (jump, teletransportation..). Ardents have got "mantles" and psions "psycristals".

* Could "talents" (level 0 powers, like psionic catrips) be used to "create tools"? For example to unlock jails when they are prisons in a dungeon

* Could a "talent" (level 0 psionic power) to create enough ectoplasm to block a gunpowder canon or to water gundpowder?

* Does anybody remember the manga from 80s "Mai the psychic girl"?
 


Yeah and it's not even hard to do this. But people insist on pissing around with half-arsed takes.

That said, let's be real for one second - Sorcerers don't pass this test.

They don't even come close to passing this test. By the same logic, 5E Sorcerers absolutely 100% should not exist. DND Next Sorcerers were different enough that they could maybe make a valid claim to exist, but 5E? Including 5E 2024? No. Those are just reskinned Wizards. Or maybe reskinned Bards.

So why does this test get applied to one and not the other? Sorcerer has less of a history in D&D than Psion.
God I get sad every time the DnDNext sorcerer gets brought up. Such a unique class concept, completely and permanently binned, because people wanted 'wizard, but hot' instead.
 

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