D&D 5E For those playing 2014 5e, how are you reacting to the 2024 update?

For those playing 2014 5e, how are you reacting to the 2024 update?

  • We'll be switching over to the 2024 rules exclusively

    Votes: 44 26.8%
  • We'll be staying with 2014 rules but taking pieces from the 2024 updates

    Votes: 24 14.6%
  • We'll be updating to the 2024 rules but taking pieces from the 2014 rules

    Votes: 25 15.2%
  • We'll be picking and choosing between 2014 and 2024 rules to create our own house rules.

    Votes: 10 6.1%
  • We'll be staying with the 2014 rules exclusively

    Votes: 43 26.2%
  • We're going to play another game

    Votes: 18 11.0%

I like the changes to a couple spells like Chromatic Orb. I like that the MM24 monsters are more dangerous. The bastion rules inspired me to take a crack at a Birthright-style campaign, which has been fun so far.
I primarily use Level Up A5E but I'll be taking some stuff like the above from 5e24.

I will say, I have a 5e24 Warlock in one of my games now and.. I do not care for some of the changes, such as unlimited Invisibility castings. I don't know if I'll be allowing any 5e24 classes in my games in the future.
 

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I was initially hopeful about the 2024 ruleset. While the 2024 PHB featured notable power creep and significant nerfing or near complete removal of several classes of spells (such as summoning) I felt that the changes overall were beneficial. Summoning was, for example, often time consuming and/or overpowered in the way it was implemented. I like how they gave some utility abilities to classes like fighter.

I was significantly less enthusiastic about the 2024 DMG - the loss of monster creation rules was damaging. And their suggestions for traps and dungeon hazards are mostly terrible - barely speed bumps for most characters to be solved brainlessly with a little healing.

Today I got the 2024 Monster Manual and... maybe I'll cool down at some point but as of this moment I think I am FINISHED with the 2024 revisions; and I'm furious that I spent any money on the new books in the first place. Whoever wrote this thing is a @#$& imbecile who clearly never understood what made 5th edition fun or interesting. To those who are interested:

* There are STILL no monster creation rules. So if I decide to give a great axe to a bandit instead of a scimitar, I have no idea how that would affect CR.

* They continued the disgusting 4e tradition of nerfing everything to oblivion. With terrible and far-reaching narrative implications:

* Basilisks / Gorgons / Medusae no longer can permanently petrify anything. Petrified victims continue to make saves and turn back to flesh when they finally and invariably succeed. Presuming I'm reading the entries correctly at least. EDIT: I am increasingly of the opinion that I was NOT reading the entries correctly. The entries are not clearly written.

* False Appearance abilities are pretty much entirely gone. Not that surprise means a heck of a lot anymore anyway.

* Venomous beasts like Giant Spiders now deal a little bit of poison damage with no other possible ill effects. At least they figured out the difference between poisonous and venomous.

* Ghouls / ghasts paralyze victims ONLY for a single round.

* Lycanthropy has issues. The wording is that victims who suffer a bite from a were-creature attack become cursed if they fail a con save. If they drop to 0 hit points while cursed they become a were-creature under the DM's control. The problem is that there is no explanation for how or when were-ness nor the curse can be removed. Does a PC who has fallen under the DM's control revert back if the curse is removed? Presumably Remove Curse could remove the curse. Since they split everything into separate entries, they had to print the effects of a were-creature bite something like five separate times (for each were-creature)...instead of describing it in a single, collective entry.

* They doubled down on reducing max HP as an "energy drain" mechanic. Which still all goes away on a long rest. Though the MM doesn't bother telling you that.

* The overwhelming majority of sentient non-pc species that one would fight at low level no longer count as humanoids. All goblinoids are fey, kobolds are dragons, gith and kuo-toa are aberrations, bullywugs are fey, gnolls are fiends. Orcs and drow don't get stat blocks... This mostly just messes up anyone foolish enough to invest in Enchantment spells that only target humanoids - like charm person, crown of madness, dominate person.

* No NPC stat block suggests that they get weapon mastery abilities, even if they're a warrior type.

* Giants have been heavily nerfed. And mostly no longer throw boulders. (They do have alternate ranged attacks). EDIT: Aside from the not using boulders bit, I double-checked the stats on this one. I was mistaken.

* Banshee howls no longer drop anything above 25 hps to 0. Anything higher takes an anemic 3d6 damage instead...if and only if they fail the save. The thing somehow remains CR 4.

* Acid and rust effects that degrade weapons and armor can be completely removed with a cantrip.

* There isn't actually any good NPC equivalent to replace basic Orc or Drow warrior stat blocks. Most low-level mooks use Dexterity-based attacks and weapons with d6 base damage. There's a thug equivalent with 30-some odd hit points. But one's CR 1/2 thuggish soldier options are extremely limited. Hobgoblin warriors and maybe ogrillons are possibly the closest...at CR 1. There are plenty of dex-based variations for drow-type characters but no way to calculate CR changes for the iconic drow poison.

* Beholders are still rendered ineffectual by an obscuring mist or darkness spell.

* Several monster entries are either non-sensical, unexplained, or run contrary to traditional lore. Generic pirates can charm people in combat...because pirates quintessentially are irresistably loveable rogues, even while murdering your friends; as opposed to being scruffy outcasts with horrible scars, rotting teeth, chronic halitosis, and peg legs or something. Knights deal some extra radiant damage because knightness is inherently magical I guess. Hobgoblins and some other foes deal extra weapon damage that isn't ever explained. Pirate Captains and Admirals deal double to quadruple base weapon damage ON EACH attack for no internally explicable reason whatsoever - other than maybe the designers just felt that NPCs of a certain CR should deal X levels of damage.

* Only a fraction of the background lore for many individual monsters remains.

None of these are remotely good changes. Yes, it sucked to be hit with petrification or level drain back in the day. But the hardships contributed to a sense of threat when fighting the foes in question and to feelings of accomplishment when they were defeated. And the need to cure such conditions drove plotlines. Fantasy needs to feel fantastic. Removing wide swathes of iconic monsters and challenges is NOT good for the game. Reducing qualitative problems to damage and hit point numbers is NOT good for the game.
 
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Presumably Remove Curse could remove the curse.
This is where it's obvious they wrote these books with DDB's tooltips in mind. Each lycanthrope's entry has the word "cursed" hotlinked to the Curses entry in the 2024 PHB's Rules Glossary. Here's what that says: "Some game effects curse a creature or an object. The effect that confers a curse defines what the curse does. Curses can be removed by the Remove Curse and Greater Restoration spells or other magic that explicitly ends curses."

* Acid and rust effects that degrade weapons and armor can be completely removed with a cantrip.
I actually like this one because it makes mending more worthwhile.
 


Pick and mixing. Most classes got a buff (poor Moon druid) ,my group loved weapon mastery. Still playing flanking, love that rule. Not sure about reducing the number of saves from monster effects eg wolf knockdown.
 

Upgrading wholeheartedly for all three regular groups. The new rules are a straight up improvement across the board for our table. We also don’t like half arsing things. Once you start changing individual classes where does it stop.

Fascinating to see where folks are on the Kubler-Ross curve. It’s really clear from some posts.

The first 5 points just sap energy, morale and effectiveness. The sooner you focus attention on the future you the less you suffer from the change. That might be switching system. Worth noting that switching system doesn’t stop the need to experiment, decide and integrate you just doing that differently. The disruption is just the same if not more. Much more if the new system doesn’t work out and you end up going back to the 5.5 anyway.

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I run three games. All of them have fully shifted to 2024 and we are loving it. Players like the new toys, and the new monsters hit like a truck now.

Ran a “medium” 2024 encounter and a “hard” 2014 one in my last session, and the players said they felt much more threatened by the medium encounter. Excited to continue using the Monster Manual.
Update to this, ran a hard encounter for my group yesterday and TPK’d them. Tier 1-2 monsters are no joke. Looking forward to trying the higher CR creatures in the future.
 

Fascinating to see where folks are on the Kubler-Ross curve. It’s really clear from some posts.
Yep, but I think it also has a missing point: Rejection. As you know change is not always accepted. I don't recall if the curve makes the assumption change is accepted---I haven't seen it in about 30 years lol!

Or was Denial supposed to include Rejection? I don't remember. I don't think so but I could be wrong. But I would think Rejection could happen following any point except perhaps Integration.

Man... all the stuff I've forgotten is depressing. :confused:
 

Yep, but I think it also has a missing point: Rejection. As you know change is not always accepted. I don't recall if the curve makes the assumption change is accepted---I haven't seen it in about 30 years lol!
I assume that falls into Decision, stick with 2014, move to 2024 or pick up something else altogether
 

I assume that falls into Decision, stick with 2014, move to 2024 or pick up something else altogether
But that assumes you've gone through the other parts--shock, denial, frustration, depression, experiment--first, I would think.
 

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