D&D 5E What could 5E do to make wealth worthwhile?

[Lanefan]

Stuff players can do with money in my present campaign:

• (Buy or commission magic items, of course)
• Buy property
• Construct, expand, or contract the construction of buildings on that property.
• Purchase exotic creatures, like griffons.
• Hire experts to train said creatures
• Commission sages to research a particular subject
• Hire investigators to find out information about a particular person
• Purchase land, sea, or air vehicles
• Install siege weapon on their fortress or vehicle
• Add enhancements like safety railings, extra armor, weightlifting machinery, or sealed compartments to vehicles.
• Improve existing settlements
• Fund organizations that advocate for particular populations
• Build temples, shrines, libraries, exotic herb gardens
• Start and run businesses.
• Hire barristers to pursue or defend against legal issues

More importantly, and implied but not stated in your post, you-as-DM allow them the downtime both in-character and in-session to do all this. That's what makes the difference.

 

[nevin]

Note: This includes 5E 2024.

It is pretty well agreed upon that monetary treasure and wealth does not have much use in 5E (especially compared to 3.x era games). So what could 5E do to make money matter? What would you like to see? What things could help motivate the going into the holes and killing the monsters and taking their stuff?

This is only in games where the DM doesn't have a holistic world. I've played in lots of games where wealth is useful. But the more you restrict the game to simply combat with only the Items the DM wants you to have the less useful the wealth becomes. That has been a problem with the game since 1e. If your DM only does say dungeon delves or encounters and hates magic shops and avoids things like fines, buying property or all the other things that would happen if it were a real world then the money becomes a big stone of weight you carry in your portable hole. I don't think there is a decent option in the rules for money. The DM just needs to incorporate places to spend it, reasons to spend it and benefits to spend it on.

 

[Hriston]

The no-tutor option is intriguing, I have it that after about name level or a tidge higher they don't need a tutor in any case (if for no other reason than high-level people aren't always easy to find and-or available) meaning this dual-pricing system wouldn't work.

My descriptive text is probably too terse on this. (It’s basically just my personal notes, so I can keep track of how this works.) But the dual pricing (“with tutor” option) only applies to characters who have not completed training for name level, so I think we’re the same on this.

One can also argue that part of the cost of training is to pay the tutor thus untutored training should be cheaper rather than more costly, with the drawback being it takes far longer.

While the tutor may or may not receive payment (and I do allow the tutor to waive some or all of the cost in exchange for services), the cost of training is meant to cover expenses for materials, equipment, facilities, other employees such as sparring partners, etc., things which the tutor may already have at their disposal. Untutored (and thus longer) training is not meant in my system as an equal trade off with tutored training, but rather as a back up alternative of last resort that's still available even in situations where a tutor cannot be engaged for whatever reason.

 

[Baron Opal II]

Note: This includes 5E 2024.

It is pretty well agreed upon that monetary treasure and wealth does not have much use in 5E (especially compared to 3.x era games). So what could 5E do to make money matter? What would you like to see? What things could help motivate the going into the holes and killing the monsters and taking their stuff?

Have things to buy.

So, expansive equipment lists, home and manor furnishings for the discerning adventurer, items for status, clothing choices that not only protect in various kinds of inclement weather but also killer fashion for the Baronial Ball, pets- both utilitarian and exotic.

People will spend money if there are things to buy. Nearly every campaign I've run in the past 40 years the party wanted to buy a house with a butler and guard. A home base where people can store extra stuff with trusted hirelings is desirable. Also, people have always wanted bling, especially if it gets them noticed socially.

 

[Lakesidefantasy]

I think one thing that Dungeons and Dragons could do to make wealth more useful is to create downtime activities that cost money but give you things like experience points (or even whole levels if you don't use experience points), contacts, new abilities, boons, etc.

Shadowdark does this with downtown activities and you get mostly experience points, but you can also gain new abilities, contacts, and allies. It's a fun minigame in between visits to the dungeon.

I think something like this could easily be introduced to your own game; and it could be yet another source of customization as different classes and backgrounds could have different options for downtime activities. Imagine, assassins could make a little money on the side as an assassin. Or backgrounds, imagine a character with a pirate background could go pillaging for a bit o' booty between adventures.

Let's think of things to spend our money on in downtime and what we could get from it.

 

[Lakesidefantasy]

I think one thing that Dungeons and Dragons could do to make wealth more useful is to create downtime activities that cost money but give you things like experience points (or even whole levels if you don't use experience points), contacts, new abilities, boons, etc.

Shadowdark does this with downtown activities and you get mostly experience points, but you can also gain new abilities, contacts, and allies. It's a fun minigame in between visits to the dungeon.

I think something like this could easily be introduced to your own game; and it could be yet another source of customization as different classes and backgrounds could have different options for downtime activities. Imagine, assassins could make a little money on the side as an assassin. Or backgrounds, imagine a character with a pirate background could go pillaging for a bit o' booty between adventures.

Let's think of things to spend our money on in downtime and what we could get from it.

THINK BIGGER! (but not too big) Before you come in with the suggestion that wizards could make a little money by selling potions and scrolls, that would be for the guild artisan background.

 

[Lanefan]

My descriptive text is probably too terse on this. (It’s basically just my personal notes, so I can keep track of how this works.) But the dual pricing (“with tutor” option) only applies to characters who have not completed training for name level, so I think we’re the same on this.

OK, got it.

While the tutor may or may not receive payment (and I do allow the tutor to waive some or all of the cost in exchange for services), the cost of training is meant to cover expenses for materials, equipment, facilities, other employees such as sparring partners, etc., things which the tutor may already have at their disposal.

Other than the "already at their disposal" piece, this is almost word for word our rationale for expenses as well.

We assume the materials etc. are being sourced fresh every time and that the facilities are both quasi-permanent and equally accessible to student and tutor. Therefore...

Untutored (and thus longer) training is not meant in my system as an equal trade off with tutored training, but rather as a back up alternative of last resort that's still available even in situations where a tutor cannot be engaged for whatever reason.

...there's no significant jump in the training cost formula at-after name level when you start self-training. It just takes a bit longer.

 

[Lanefan]

I think one thing that Dungeons and Dragons could do to make wealth more useful is to create downtime activities that cost money but give you things like experience points (or even whole levels if you don't use experience points), contacts, new abilities, boons, etc.

Shadowdark does this with downtown activities and you get mostly experience points, but you can also gain new abilities, contacts, and allies. It's a fun minigame in between visits to the dungeon.

The risk there is that if they can earn xp for downtime activities (safe, usually) there's less reason to go adventuring (dangerous).

One admittedly-arbitrary limiting option is to put a cap on how much % of a level's xp can be earned through non-adventuring activities. Another, more fiction-friendly, option is to have those downtime xp rewards be so small that to gain a level that way might take a few years instead of the usual few adventuring days.

I think something like this could easily be introduced to your own game; and it could be yet another source of customization as different classes and backgrounds could have different options for downtime activities. Imagine, assassins could make a little money on the side as an assassin. Or backgrounds, imagine a character with a pirate background could go pillaging for a bit o' booty between adventures.

Ah. To me, activities like this are almost an extension of adventuring - a Fighter spends a few weeks on the war's front lines or a Thief does some street work or whatever. Happens all the time in our games, usually if someone needs just a few more xp to bump.

Downtime activities - the type that might earn a few xp, anyway - to me represent things not necessarily directly related to one's class e.g. political activities and schmoozing, public works, research, donations or tithes, and so on. Non-xp-granting downtime activities include training, carousing, shopping, gear and equipment repair or upgrading, and so on.

 

[Lakesidefantasy]

The risk there is that if they can earn xp for downtime activities (safe, usually) there's less reason to go adventuring (dangerous).

Well, if people want to develop their characters through "safe" downtime activities rather than adventuring, so be it. To each their own.

Another, more fiction-friendly, option is to have those downtime xp rewards be so small that to gain a level that way might take a few years instead of the usual few adventuring days.

Let's not assume that 17 levels of adventuring can't take place in a few months of in-world time. (Speaking from experience.

Ah. To me, activities like this are almost an extension of adventuring - a Fighter spends a few weeks on the war's front lines or a Thief does some street work or whatever. Happens all the time in our games, usually if someone needs just a few more xp to bump.

Downtime activities - the type that might earn a few xp, anyway - to me represent things not necessarily directly related to one's class e.g. political activities and schmoozing, public works, research, donations or tithes, and so on. Non-xp-granting downtime activities include training, carousing, shopping, gear and equipment repair or upgrading, and so on.

What I'm suggesting here is expanding and gamifying the downtime system into another way to play with your character. We've been doing it in Shadowdark and we've found it to be a lot of fun. I just think it can be more fun if we all have different options dependent on our characters classes and backgrounds. It's another way to develop your character.

 

[Sorinth]

I haven't worked out the details yet but I'm thinking of making Lifestyle Expenses a meaningful part of the equation, the gist of it being that it impacts Long Rest. So something like Comfortable+ will provide some extra benefits, and Poor- applies some sort of penalties. Probably also requiring some number of consecutive LRs to gain the benefits.

And although Lifestyle Expenses isn't in itself a huge money sink, if the good ones aren't generally just available to rent and therefore requires owning the residence that can very quickly become a money sink if desired.