D&D 5E 2024 D&D is 2014 D&D with 4E sprinkled on top

[Scribe]

DnD does not do that, DnD is a setting

I disagree on both counts.

 

[Scribe]

My character is nothing. My items are everything.

Your base stats, your saves, are not your items.

A simple rule, could make all the difference for a high level Fighter.

"You are Fearless, you will hold your ground regardless of what you are fighting."

 

[Micah Sweet]

i want to point out here, that in MCU and DC, they're at least trying to keep up the pretence that they are on our earth, batman and black widow are just people like any who you could meet in any street, maybe it's a parallel dimension where magic exists but fundamentally the setting conceit is that this is a version of earth, these humans are like us, DnD does not do that, DnD is a setting based on myths and legends, ignoring the fact they are literal gods/demigods thor, loki, hercules and wonder woman are closer to the kind of stories and 'humans' that DnD is based off of and trying to emulate.

I'd love to see text to that effect, referencing humans in D&D.

 

[Aldarc]

i want to point out here, that in MCU and DC, they're at least trying to keep up the pretence that they are on our earth, batman and black widow are just people like any who you could meet in any street, maybe it's a parallel dimension where magic exists but fundamentally the setting conceit is that this is a version of earth, these humans are like us, DnD does not do that, DnD is a setting based on myths and legends, ignoring the fact they are literal gods/demigods thor, loki, hercules and wonder woman are closer to the kind of stories and 'humans' that DnD is based off of and trying to emulate.

Also ironically, in some ways, Batman and Iron Man have more in common with wizards than they do fighters, with characters like Superman and Wonder Woman being the "fighters" of their universe.

 

[Remathilis]

i want to point out here, that in MCU and DC, they're at least trying to keep up the pretence that they are on our earth, batman and black widow are just people like any who you could meet in any street, maybe it's a parallel dimension where magic exists but fundamentally the setting conceit is that this is a version of earth, these humans are like us, DnD does not do that, DnD is a setting based on myths and legends, ignoring the fact they are literal gods/demigods thor, loki, hercules and wonder woman are closer to the kind of stories and 'humans' that DnD is based off of and trying to emulate.

But none of those characters come from humble origins. They are gods, mutants, science experiments, aliens or rich brilliant inventors. Bruce Wayne and Natasha Romanov aren't bankers and grocers, one is a billionaire genius inventor trained by ninjas and the other is a Russian assassin who received her own version of super soldier serum in the Red Room. They are special.

And that's part of the problem. There are stories about people going from zero to hero, but not zero to demigod without seeing external force or hidden origin. No one goes from Peter Parker to Spiderman without that radioactive spider.

 

[Voadam]

i want to point out here, that in MCU and DC, they're at least trying to keep up the pretence that they are on our earth, batman and black widow are just people like any who you could meet in any street, maybe it's a parallel dimension where magic exists but fundamentally the setting conceit is that this is a version of earth, these humans are like us, DnD does not do that, DnD is a setting based on myths and legends, ignoring the fact they are literal gods/demigods thor, loki, hercules and wonder woman are closer to the kind of stories and 'humans' that DnD is based off of and trying to emulate.

Myths and legends are part of D&D's inspiration, but also a lot of Swords and Sorcery, Conan and the Gray Mouser and fantasy like Lord of the Rings.

Boromir and Conan and such are definitely part of the expected exemplars for D&D fighters. Even in the myths you've got a range of power level inspirations from Odysseus being a clever warrior on tons of adventures and getting through by cunning versus half divine Hercules holding up the sky through supernatural strength.

 

[MuhVerisimilitude]

I think D&D has gotten players used to a weird kind of thinking about how to interact with the world. You're either interacting through skills or through spells (or class abilities).

Skills are the least influential, they're 100% "mundane" and they're weak.

Then you have spells which are the most influential, and which are extremely potent, and many of them have no chance of failure.

So if you think of someone who is extremely good at something, you filter that through the lens of the skill system, and the immediate conclusion is: Well it's someone with a very high bonus in X... But a very high bonus is X is pretty much useless, because skills aren't competently designed. Whoever designed the 5E skill system failed their game design check.

We need to stop thinking in terms of numerical bonuses to the skills, because the numerical bonuses do not actually manifest as competence.

Examples of completely mundane and non-magical things:

• Being able to swim for days without rest
• Being able to hold your breath for hours
• Being able to move perfectly under water
• Being able to lock pick a door by just knocking on it

My point is that this is what D&D does not make you think about, because the skill system is so trash and non-magical interactions with the world are all through that skill system. You are trained to think about the world in a very very limited way in the D&D context.

 

[TwoSix]

There is a difference there, and theres a third path that some seem to want deleted.

"You are not special, awesome, or empowered, in anyway more than anyone else, but you are willing to stand and do your job anyway."

Thats the thing that gets lost, if we give everyone superpowers.

But that concept is completely untenable once the game gets to, like, 4th or 5th level. A "5th-level mundane" is an oxymoron.

 

[Aldarc]

Myths and legends are part of D&D's inspiration, but also a lot of Swords and Sorcery, Conan and the Gray Mouser and fantasy like Lord of the Rings.

Boromir and Conan and such are definitely part of the expected exemplars for D&D fighters. Even in the myths you've got a range of power level inspirations from Odysseus being a clever warrior on tons of adventures and getting through by cunning versus half divine Hercules holding up the sky through supernatural strength.

Even if all these things were part of D&D's inspiration, it's also worth considering whether that is the case now? What is the current inspiration for D&D's fanbase? Has the popular sense of D&D's basis in genre fiction changed over time?

 

[TwoSix]

But none of those characters come from humble origins. They are gods, mutants, science experiments, aliens or rich brilliant inventors. Bruce Wayne and Natasha Romanov aren't bankers and grocers, one is a billionaire genius inventor trained by ninjas and the other is a Russian assassin who received her own version of super soldier serum in the Red Room. They are special.

And that's part of the problem. There are stories about people going from zero to hero, but not zero to demigod without seeing external force or hidden origin. No one goes from Peter Parker to Spiderman without that radioactive spider.

While the game engine can accomodate a pretty wide swath of character types and associated origins, I don't think it's possible for all of those types to exist within one setting. Some tastes (like what @Scribe and @EzekielRaiden are espousing, as an example) are simply going to be mutually contradictory and impossible to rectify.

You can have a game engine where a John Wick type falls off a building and is fine, and a John Wick type falls off a building and is mortally injured, but not at the same time. Unless you're willing to accept level difference being fundamentally different genres within the same setting.