D&D 5E What could 5E do to make wealth worthwhile?

[Reynard]

I really don't like the idea of having to pay for training and level up. I can't imagine a player not choosing to level up, so the training cost becomes a tax, it doesn't make treasure simply worthwhile but rather necessary, and if it's necessary then as a DM I have to give out treasure just so that I can then take it away.

The idea is, I think, to motivate the PCs to find treasure -- meaning they will go into the dark hole and poke around in the dangerous places looking for loot.

The farther a campaign gets from treasure hunting tomb robbing PCs, the less worthwhile that sort of thing becomes.

 

[Horwath]

And that's the crux of the matter. You can add all kinds of money sinks (taxes, fees, currency exchange rates etc), but most of them just don't make game any more fun and just add more book keeping for dm and players.

magic items are fun to add, but not +X items, those are bland, boring and forgettable. With +X weapon you just change your character sheet once and then you even forget you have a magic sword.

but a sword that gives 5 maneuver dice and Parry, Precision and Riposte maneuvers with it, is a fun item. You need to remember it and know when and against whom to use it.

 

[ECMO3]

Note: This includes 5E 2024.

It is pretty well agreed upon that monetary treasure and wealth does not have much use in 5E (especially compared to 3.x era games). So what could 5E do to make money matter? What would you like to see? What things could help motivate the going into the holes and killing the monsters and taking their stuff?

There are two things DMs can do without changing the rules at all:

1. Don't award the party a lot of wealth. Wealth becomes more important when paying for food is noticable, things like Plate Armor are out of reach and the party has to pool resources to pay for spell components for things like Identify and Revifiy.

2. Allow for purchase of magic items, including Legendary items. This gives you something to spend vast amounts of wealth on.

 

[nevin]

There are two things DMs can do without changing the rules at all:

1. Don't award the party a lot of wealth. Wealth becomes more important when paying for food is noticable, things like Plate Armor are out of reach and the party has to pool resources to pay for spell components for things like Identify and Revifiy.

2. Allow for purchase of magic items, including Legendary items. This gives you something to spend vast amounts of wealth on.

or let them spend their money on social things, buy a title of nobility, Marry a poor man/woman with a title and no money and then spend the money building out thier power base, I've had characters build orphanage's, churches, or just flat out donate magic items to the local guard to build thier rep and status in the community. I've had characters of mine, invest in shipping firms and use the money to hire thieves to steal other nations improved process for making steel. Lot's of things can be worked into a game, that require money, if you leave the idea that the combat simulator is the primary game behind.

 

[bert1001 fka bert1000]

or let them spend their money on social things, buy a title of nobility, Marry a poor man/woman with a title and no money and then spend the money building out thier power base, I've had characters build orphanage's, churches, or just flat out donate magic items to the local guard to build thier rep and status in the community. I've had characters of mine, invest in shipping firms and use the money to hire thieves to steal other nations improved process for making steel. Lot's of things can be worked into a game, that require money, if you leave the idea that the combat simulator is the primary game behind.

100% It's hard to model but the DM can make sure that money spent on larger institutions (e.g., governments, churches, guilds, strongholds and armies, etc.) leads to political power and in game ramifications.

Of course, the players /characters have to be interested in these goals instead of just more and more powerful murder hobos but I think many players would be interested if given the general idea of how it would work with the DM.

If you invest enough in this church there is a chance that it will become the state religion which would likely start a war with X. And can tie a few direct adventures for the party into this aim as well if they want to increase the chances of this happening.

 

[Lanefan]

I really don't like the idea of having to pay for training and level up. I can't imagine a player not choosing to level up, so the training cost becomes a tax, it doesn't make treasure simply worthwhile but rather necessary, and if it's necessary then as a DM I have to give out treasure just so that I can then take it away. Or am I really supposed to sometimes tell the players "sorry you don't have enough money to level up"?

Lots to unpack here.

First, paying for training means you can stay on the fast-track of levelling up. You can choose not to pay, but you advance considerably slower as a result - it's a trade-off.

Second, giving out loot so you can take it back is fairly representative of the real world, isn't it?

Third, yes you are supposed to tell the players they can't afford to train if-when that becomes the case. It happens, though rarely IME and usually because the character has chosen to blow its money on something else (usually a high-end magic item).

Isn't that what XP are supposed to mean?

The way I see it, xp are a measure of how well you've grokked the classroom theory you learned during your previous training, and when you get enough of 'em it signals you're ready for go back for another round of in-class* theory.

* - or suitable equivalent for character class.

 

[Lanefan]

magic items are fun to add, but not +X items, those are bland, boring and forgettable. With +X weapon you just change your character sheet once and then you even forget you have a magic sword.

but a sword that gives 5 maneuver dice and Parry, Precision and Riposte maneuvers with it, is a fun item. You need to remember it and know when and against whom to use it.

My preference is weapons that have a root basic '+' enchantment and also have some other ability e.g. a +1 crossbow that detects large traps nearby when wielded or a +1 longsword that once a day has a chance of charming what it hits, that sort of thing.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Well, I know that I never seem to have enough money to buy and scribe all the spells I want. A proper wizard learns every spell he possible can. And keeps a backup spellbook.

Expensive components can add a reasonable cost too. Not just the consumed ones (though that can end up being one of the biggest expenses), but initially buying the reusable components. My 5th-level cleric spent almost all his money making sure he could cast every spell he had access to at least once. I didn't want to end up planning to prepare a different situational spell the next day, only to realize I don't have a costly component for it.

Also, while it shouldn't be an issue after low-level, the cost of living is a thing, and you should either be paying upkeep, or specifically paying for food and lodging.

I don't know if DMs are just skipping those costs, but if you are letting your party cast free revivify and never pay for food, well, that's not the game's fault. It has listed costs for those things for a reason.

That issue out of the way, assuming your group isn't just handwaving all the actual expenses the game includes, you move into more subjective playstyle territory.

My characters like nice stuff. They aren't just a block of statistics made to kill monsters. They are an imaginary person who decides to keep some of the jewelry and art objects they find because they like them. Even though we do have actual places you can buy magic items (nothing like 3e, and significantly more expensive than the cheap (and seemingly cheaper and cheaper as the product line progressed) 5e prices), those are competing with the other things we want. Vehicles, mounts. A fancy set of clothes or accessories. I had the hide of a young black dragon we slew turned into armor. No statistical benefit over non-magical armor, but it sure makes a statement and costs a lot more. Found a dwarven smith so I could make sure to get the quality work I wanted. We also got daggers made from teeth.

I mean, am I the only one who built and decked out all the manors in Skyrim's expansion? I do the same sorts of thing in D&D. Are there a lot of players who do that sort of thing in video games but don't in D&D? I find it at least as satisfying in D&D. Is it the fact that you don't get the built-in visuals provided, and you have to either find/make art or keep it in your imagination? Works for me. I regularly imagine that dragon armor with it glossy black scales, gold trim and red gemstones. My character might even not wear it when they want to avoid standing out so much.

When people talk about not having anything to spend money on, I just wonder how their games play, because I don't expect I'll ever run out of things to spend my imaginary money on in a game where I'm imagining living in a fantasy world.

I suppose if your games are only about battles and adventures and you completely gloss over or aren't interested in anything between, and don't like to imagine what things look like, and don't have any players who like to make art for their characters or the party, and let people cast expensive spells for free, and just convert all your treasure into coins rather than admiring it, then yeah, you'll probably find your money just turning into an ever increasing number on your sheet. It just feels to me like choosing to combine not following some of the game rules with not engaging with the role-playing immersion the money is mostly there for, and then wondering why it's there. And that's fine, but that is why it's there.

Am I missing something obvious?

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

Am I missing something obvious?

That none of WotC's campaign adventures support your suggestion at all.

 

[GobHag]

Well, I know that I never seem to have enough money to buy and scribe all the spells I want. A proper wizard learns every spell he possible can. And keeps a backup spellbook.

Expensive components can add a reasonable cost too. Not just the consumed ones (though that can end up being one of the biggest expenses), but initially buying the reusable components. My 5th-level cleric spent almost all his money making sure he could cast every spell he had access to at least once. I didn't want to end up planning to prepare a different situational spell the next day, only to realize I don't have a costly component for it.

Also, while it shouldn't be an issue after low-level, the cost of living is a thing, and you should either be paying upkeep, or specifically paying for food and lodging.

I don't know if DMs are just skipping those costs, but if you are letting your party cast free revivify and never pay for food, well, that's not the game's fault. It has listed costs for those things for a reason.

That issue out of the way, assuming your group isn't just handwaving all the actual expenses the game includes, you move into more subjective playstyle territory.

My characters like nice stuff. They aren't just a block of statistics made to kill monsters. They are an imaginary person who decides to keep some of the jewelry and art objects they find because they like them. Even though we do have actual places you can buy magic items (nothing like 3e, and significantly more expensive than the cheap (and seemingly cheaper and cheaper as the product line progressed) 5e prices), those are competing with the other things we want. Vehicles, mounts. A fancy set of clothes or accessories. I had the hide of a young black dragon we slew turned into armor. No statistical benefit over non-magical armor, but it sure makes a statement and costs a lot more. Found a dwarven smith so I could make sure to get the quality work I wanted. We also got daggers made from teeth.

I mean, am I the only one who built and decked out all the manors in Skyrim's expansion? I do the same sorts of thing in D&D. Are there a lot of players who do that sort of thing in video games but don't in D&D? I find it at least as satisfying in D&D. Is it the fact that you don't get the built-in visuals provided, and you have to either find/make art or keep it in your imagination? Works for me. I regularly imagine that dragon armor with it glossy black scales, gold trim and red gemstones. My character might even not wear it when they want to avoid standing out so much.

When people talk about not having anything to spend money on, I just wonder how their games play, because I don't expect I'll ever run out of things to spend my imaginary money on in a game where I'm imagining living in a fantasy world.

I suppose if your games are only about battles and adventures and you completely gloss over or aren't interested in anything between, and don't like to imagine what things look like, and don't have any players who like to make art for their characters or the party, and let people cast expensive spells for free, and just convert all your treasure into coins rather than admiring it, then yeah, you'll probably find your money just turning into an ever increasing number on your sheet. It just feels to me like choosing to combine not following some of the game rules with not engaging with the role-playing immersion the money is mostly there for, and then wondering why it's there. And that's fine, but that is why it's there.

Am I missing something obvious?

My character is a block of stats with nice art yes--she does not have a preference for luxury food or need to live in a mansion, she'a fun concept combined with effective skills and abilities.. I don't really care about the world and only the gameplay experience is what I'm after, how do you make gold matter to me?

In Pathfinder? Magic Items. I think everyone that wants magic items as this special thing that rarely gets in the player's hand is an idiot and a fool.