D&D General Which edition handled alignment best?

[Maxperson]

They make vegan steak, so clearly some are pro steak just not meat steak.

That's like saying that someone who dresses up like a robot is a robot just because they call him one. No matter what they want to call it, there's no such thing as vegan steak.

 

[Mind of tempest]

lol just because people put words on things, doesnt mean they are correct.

A vegan 'steak' is not a Steak, in the inherently understood meaning of the word.

it is made to do the same job, thus clearly they want steak but do not wish to change diets for a variety of reasons thus an imitation is born.

I think my problem with alignment is that it both feels half done cosmically and badly done on a more mortal scale.
it should be clearer what the four poles even are.

As what is cosmically lawful anyway? If an opposite for chaos is needed that is felt as needed but is unpleasant in a non-evil way, stasis feels like a logical opposite extreme.

There should be more of a concrete visual idea of what the sides mean, as that is an easy transmission vector for people and will make the three types of fiends not look largely interchangeable.

 

[Scribe]

it is made to do the same job

Yes, all food is attempting to do the same job. A Steak just does it well, while a ultra processed vegan imitation 'steak' is a crime against nature.

as what is cosmically lawful anyway? if an opposite for chaos is need that is felt as needed but is unpleasant in a none evil way, stasis feels like a logical opposite extreme.

Stasis is the extreme opposite, all the way back in the root material of Moorcock.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Yes, all food is attempting to do the same job. A Steak just does it well, while a ultra processed vegan imitation 'steak' is a crime against nature.



Stasis is the extreme opposite, all the way back in the root material of Moorcock.

but comic stasis is a more evocative, clear term, it explains why people would want some sort of balance between the two, as both chaos and stasis would be unpleasant for most people.

 

[Scribe]

but comic stasis is a more evocative, clear term, it explains why people would want some sort of balance between the two, as both chaos and stasis would be unpleasant for most people.

If it was 100% one extreme or the other, nobody would sign up for either.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Yes, all food is attempting to do the same job. A Steak just does it well, while a ultra processed vegan imitation 'steak' is a crime against nature.

I believe the carbon footprint disagrees with you which of them is the crime against nature.

 

[Maxperson]

it is made to do the same job, thus clearly they want steak but do not wish to change diets for a variety of reasons thus an imitation is born.

I think my problem with alignment is that it both feels half done cosmically and badly done on a more mortal scale.
it should be clearer what the four poles even are.

As what is cosmically lawful anyway? If an opposite for chaos is needed that is felt as needed but is unpleasant in a non-evil way, stasis feels like a logical opposite extreme.

There should be more of a concrete visual idea of what the sides mean, as that is an easy transmission vector for people and will make the three types of fiends not look largely interchangeable.

Pure law IS stasis. CN and LN, at least in mortal beings, aren't pure law, though. They are balanced by the N axis.

 

[Scribe]

I believe the carbon footprint disagrees with you which of them is the crime against nature.

One is 100% natural, the other is a ultra processed slop pressed into shape. Cows have existed for quite some time. Ultra processed foods, less so.

 

[Willie the Duck]

I didn't say that there weren't mechanics dealing with alignment. I said alignment wasn't a straightjacket and the old arguments, at least that I encountered, died with AD&D and very early 3e.

This isn't any more representative than your own personal experience, but back in the (late) 3e days the alignment and Book of Exalted Deeds/Book of Vile Darkness subforums on the Wizards.com forum were absolutely hopping, and home to some of the most over-the-top vitriolic nerd rage the early 00s internet had to offer.

They make vegan steak, so clearly some are pro steak just not meat steak.

lol just because people put words on things, doesnt mean they are correct.

A vegan 'steak' is not a Steak, in the inherently understood meaning of the word.

There's a linguistic trend that predates modern meat/dairy substitutes (I'm thinking of Welsh rarebit, but I'm sure it goes back to time immemorial) where something that is, by convention, a substitute for ting X can be named as a type of the thing, along with an adjective. Rocky Mountain Oysters aren't oysters, they are delicacies you have when in a specific place where oysters were impractical. Food producers pretend it is controversial because, hey, why should Soy Milk get to call itself Milk when it isn't milk*, but conceptually the linguistic action is hardly new or especially problem prone. *of course they never had a problem with coconut milk which only competed in their market when someone was making a curry, or the like.

Not that I think the existence of vegan steak (or whether it is steak or steak-substitute-which-gets-to-call-itself-steak) really plays into the point (it is forcing the analogy past its original purpose). Scribe's point about people who dislike a mechanic likely voting for the edition which downplays the mechanic is reasonable and valid.

Mind you, I wouldn't worry too much about the actual poll results. We are all well aware that they are not representative of gamers overall, or even the community here (just the subset that enters a thread and feels compelled to answer the poll). No one (or the edition of their preference) 'wins' anything by winning these polls. It's just a convenient vehicle for initiating discussion.

 

[SkidAce]

I think there are plenty of gamers who saw powerful game arcs with qualities of those stories that DnD (sometimes*) embodies. I think there are also plenty of gamers who saw lawful stupid paladins or incredibly vicious playgroup arguments over whether an specific fictional act was good, evil, not-ungood**, or the like. I think which of these people saw (or saw more of) probably strongly influences how much use they think DnD alignments have.
...

Well said.