D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

I am amazed how many people are lousy with players that they can run exactly what they want and have a line of players waiting to get in that they can be choosy. My experience is that if you get too stuck in your way, you find on game night with a bunch of call offs and no shows.
I guess we're lucky here then. We have a loose "community" of about 25-ish people in our crew, currently spread across half a dozen games and with a few not playing; and if any of 'em wanted to try starting a new campaign that would be the pool to pitch it to.
 

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I guess we're lucky here then.
Yes, yes you are. Count yourself fortunate. Even at the height of gaming, I had maybe 15-16 players in my player pool for any game (back in late high school and undergrad college). By grad school it dropped to 8-10, and now it is only 5-6. In my current game there are only 4 of us (myself and 3 players).
 


I know, right, what the heck! There's too many. And those that people suggest here, I look into, and don't work for me. Why would I "try them" anyway if I can tell from the mechanics, theme, jist, etc. that I won't like them?
Because you might like them.

OK, I hope this isn't insulting but my mother likes to frequently remind me of the time I was about 18 months old and I refused to eat ice cream until my dad literally shoved his cone into my face. Then he had to get a new cone for himself because I ended up liking it too much to give it back. We have a large photo of me with ice cream all over my face because of that incident.

Plus, well, are you playing with friends or with strangers? If you're playing with friends, then even if you're not fond of the theme you may still enjoy the interactions. I do not like the Forgotten Realms. At all. I wish they'd stay forgotten. I consider it the dullest and dumbest of all the D&D settings. I'm currently in an FR game that I love because the characters are great, the GM has a great story going on, and I have fun RPing with my friends.

Maybe reading a game's rules leaves you cold. That doesn't mean you won't actually like playing it.

Well, not "perfect" certainly, but what I enjoy, yes. There are elements of AD&D that d20 systems have simplified, sort of borrowing from B/X, like ability modifiers, which I prefer to AD&D's ability tables. There are sacred cows for AD&D (or D&D in general) which I would kill off in my ideal system, like ability scores and CON mod to HP at every level. Some stuff from 2E is definite improvements from 1E, like initiative.

1. Tolkien-like. (I don't mind a couple "extra" races, but not the cantina scene many players seem to like where you can have any race at all practically.)

2. Limited player options as far as features, powers, etc. are concerned.

3. THAC0 (lol just kidding! I am fine with Ascending AC... I just couldn't resist throwing that in due to prior discussions in the thread.)

4. Class disparity. MUs begin weak, end strong, for example. You don't need balance everywhere--in fact, it is best if everything has a cost vs. gain weights. (One reason why I like item attunement in 5E, I just think too many basic things require attunement...).
It's weird, because there are tons of games I can think of that fit these requirements exactly. To me, it just seems like you're OK with AD&D being, I dunno, 75% perfect but not OK with other games being 90% perfect. You've "looked into" these games, but have you played them?

Like, you mention Savage Worlds, since that's actually the only game on your list above I've read and played. You can pick and choose what races to allow since none of them are standard. There are all sorts of costs you can add to casting spells. It technically doesn't have limited options since it's a generic system, but PCs are going to be spending most of their points on improving skills or stats; they're not going to be buying a ton of abilities and certainly aren't going to have tons of magic. Heck, even a dedicated caster may only end up with a dozen or so spells.

Obviously, neither I nor anyone else can force you to play, but if you're not willing to take a no-thank-you bite of another system, then, well, you will have to fall back on your other hobbies.
 

Because you might like them.

OK, I hope this isn't insulting but my mother likes to frequently remind me of the time I was about 18 months old and I refused to eat ice cream until my dad literally shoved his cone into my face. Then he had to get a new cone for himself because I ended up liking it too much to give it back. We have a large photo of me with ice cream all over my face because of that incident.

I seem to remember reading a paper about this. Published by a doctor known as Theodore Geisel. IIRC, the study was based on introducing subjects to oddly colored meat and poultry.
 

Because you might like them.

OK, I hope this isn't insulting but my mother likes to frequently remind me of the time I was about 18 months old and I refused to eat ice cream until my dad literally shoved his cone into my face. Then he had to get a new cone for himself because I ended up liking it too much to give it back. We have a large photo of me with ice cream all over my face because of that incident.
So... you missed this I guess:
And please (just in case you're thinking it) don't throw the whole "How can you know you won't like it if you don't try it?" line; we aren't children. (Well, I suppose some could be, but "older fans" implies adult IMO).

I'm 51. I know what I am likely to enjoy and what I won't. There are things in life I know I want to try and things I know I don't.

Plus, well, are you playing with friends or with strangers? If you're playing with friends, then even if you're not fond of the theme you may still enjoy the interactions. I do not like the Forgotten Realms. At all. I wish they'd stay forgotten. I consider it the dullest and dumbest of all the D&D settings. I'm currently in an FR game that I love because the characters are great, the GM has a great story going on, and I have fun RPing with my friends.
"Friends-ish" I suppose. One long-standing friend, the others certainly "friendly".

My game time (due to scheduling) is too short to waste time on something I might like just because of the people I'm playing with.

Maybe reading a game's rules leaves you cold. That doesn't mean you won't actually like playing it.
Perhaps, but doubtful.

It's weird, because there are tons of games I can think of that fit these requirements exactly. To me, it just seems like you're OK with AD&D being, I dunno, 75% perfect but not OK with other games being 90% perfect. You've "looked into" these games, but have you played them?
Again, no. Why would I? I am not going to invest time and money into trying games with the hope I might find something good when I already looked at them and found things I don't like.

Obviously, neither I nor anyone else can force you to play, but if you're not willing to take a no-thank-you bite of another system, then, well, you will have to fall back on your other hobbies.
Yep, and I'm happy to.

You're sort of minimizing the amount of effort I would have to put into trying out system after system. If I met a group already playing a game so I could try it? Sure, I'd give it a session or two maybe.

But as the main DM, this is me investing time and money into getting and learning each system, and then teaching it to others, and then finally trying it--just to learning I wasted a both time and money.

So, hopefully you can see why I am hesitant after reviewing a game, finding stuff I know I don't like, and then not trying it?
 

I'm going to say that's only true if you have a large pool of potential players and no other obligations to said players. That compromise line gets fuzzier when you don't have players to replace your current group with, or your players don't include longtime friends, coworkers, spouses, family, etc.

I have been playing with the same group of friends for a decade and some of those players far longer. They are flexible to a point, but if I told them all next game was 2nd edition AD&D, I'd probably get a lot of polite cancelations and be sitting on this board bemoaning how nobody wants to play the game I want to run. In that, I'd rather play something everyone likes (even if it wasn't my hypothetical first choice) than sit home alone on a Saturday night.

I don't frame it as 2E or bust. It's more OSR or bust and it's in addition to 5E. Not either or. I do go through various options and they pick.

Started with 2 players but word gets around. If young players see 2E books being used they're like "what's that", the 3E player (gamestore worker) something similar.

Others who know what it is are surprised we're playing it.

On local groups you see the occasional B/X recruitment. Or you get comments like "where are you playing". 2E Darksuns infamous. It's so usual to run It's easier to find players in some ways.

Playing away from home helps with players. You get the passer by who show interest, closer to where players live (easy access, central location) and safer for more introverted types.

If I could teleport and had the time I could have 5 groups. Got offered an entire group few days ago and sone waiting list/unreliable attendance types would be the 5th.
 
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Well... if you're running only a particular system and that's it, take it or leave it, and your players want to play something different, you may end up with no players. Or players who ignore your plot hooks, act in chaotic stupid ways, are always on their phones, or showing their disinterest in other ways.

Those players are rare and the few I've found get filtered out.
 



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