D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

I think people are conflating dissatisfied with "unhappy". Those are two different degrees of emotion IME, with unhappy being "worse" than simply dissatisfied.
You could be right, emotion words tend to vary with culture. I would consider “happy” as meaning “getting everything you want”. Thus “unhappy” means anything less than that. Thus it is possible to be unhappy with a situation but still be satisfied.

“Unhappy” is the normal state of existence for most people, it’s not the same as sad or miserable or angry. Happy is a special state of emotion that people only experience occasionally.

If you ask someone how they feel, they will probably say “I’m fine”. Fine means the same as unhappy.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

You shouldn't, and that's my point.

But when someone - be it a boss in retail or yourself in gaming - expects you to not only keep trying to sell that pig but to be successful at it, you're hosed.

If, hypothetically, I pitch a game or campaign and nobody's interested in it, where's the disconnect? Should I try pitching a different game or campaign (i.e. admit the game or campaign I'm pitching is a pig)? Should I pack it in and become a forever player (i.e. admit I'm the 'pig' in the scene)? Or should I take the retail approach and just keep hammering away pitching the same thing in hopes I'll get a bite someday?
IMO, the disconnect is clearly either in the pitch, or in the thing being pitched. It's not the game's fault that your current and/or prospective players don't bite for any idea--regardless of whether it is easy or hard, light entertainment or ultra-serious, casual or hardcore. That doesn't necessarily mean it's your fault either (though I would argue that most campaign premises have some interested people, so if you genuinely come up totally empty that suggests there's a flaw in the pitch technique being used.) It just means there's a disconnect.

Trying to leverage any of that into, "And thus the system should be innately biased to the maximum difficulty, that way I never have to persuade anyone" is innately ridiculous.

I think you might have either got a wrong impression somewhere or are really taking this to extremes, not sure which.
Your argument, as I have understood it, is as follows.

1. My players will not listen to my requests to play in an extreme-difficulty campaign, or at least are intensely resistant.
2. They will not listen (or are resistant) because they are aware that the system does not mandate non-extreme difficulty.
3. Hence, the game should have extreme difficulty as its default value, that way I don't have to convince anyone of anything.

The second point is the one I dramatized (and, yes, I recognize that it was provocative language--that's the point. People don't respond when I don't use provocative language, I've noticed.)

To the bolded: same here.

That said, every time - and I mean every bloody time - I've ever heard anyone say "We should compromise on this" in any context* not involving a decision that has to be immediately resolved, what they're really saying is "I can see I'm not going to get my way right now so let's punt on this to give me time to lobby-persuade-etc. enough support to allow me to get my way later".

In other words, it's the ultimate expression of passive aggression.

* - including around the gaming table, both in-character and out.
That absolutely is not the only nor even the primary usage of the word. I'm sorry that that has been your experience, but it simply isn't representative. Flatly.

Any time you talk with your significant other and agree on a place to eat that wasn't your personal first choice, and also wasn't their personal first choice, that is automatically a compromise. Presumably, you and your SO (I believe you've mentioned that you're married? Please correct me if I'm wrong) would have a delightful time at this third-option restaurant that is neither your first choice nor theirs. Does this mean both of you were "dissatsified" with that restaurant? I don't really see how that could be the case.
 


Any time you talk with your significant other and agree on a place to eat that wasn't your personal first choice, and also wasn't their personal first choice, that is automatically a compromise.
No, it is not. You do not appear to understand what the word "compromise" means. It's only a compromise if the particular restaurant matters to both parties. If we assume the specific restaurant doesn't matter to either party, then no compromise is necessary for there to be an agreement.

Not all agreements involve compromise. If a party gets everything they want out of a negotiation, then they have not compromised. Other parties may or may not have been forced to compromise.
 
Last edited:

No, it is not. You do not appear to understand what the word "compromise" means. It's only a compromise if the particular restaurant matters to both parties. If we assume the specific restaurant doesn't matter to either party, then no compromise is necessary for there to be an agreement.

Not all agreements involve compromise. If a party gets everything they want out of a negotiation, then they have not compromised. Other parties may or may not have been forced to compromise.
In having a personal first choice, how can it not be a compromise? I wrote what I wrote for a reason...
 



It is important to me. That doesn't mean I will be unhappy if I don't get it. That's literally the argument I'm disputing here.
It's in definition of a compromise. A compromise is an agreement in which all parties give up something they want. Giving up something you want is what is meant by "being unhappy" in this context. If you are not unhappy it was not important.

It appears to me that you are confusing the meaning of "agreement" with "compromise". They are not synonyms. A great many agreements do not require the parties to compromise. Example of a compromise: Two countries each want to build a military base on an unclaimed island. The compromise is, neither country builds a military base on the island, which is declared a DMZ. No one gets what they want, everyone is equally unhappy. Each party is, however, satisfied in the knowledge that the other country is also unhappy. Example of an agreement that is not a compromise: discussing where to go for dinner with a friend or partner. The important thing is spending time together, the venue is irrelevant. No compromise is necessary because both parties want the same thing: to spend time together.
 

If you ask someone how they feel, they will probably say “I’m fine”. Fine means the same as unhappy.
this is a wild perspective to me, i have never known 'fine' to have been anything equivalent to 'unhappy', i know that people when unhappy may say 'i'm fine' but they don't actually mean that, 'i'm fine' is a deflection, a white lie intended to bypass whatever conversation they would spawn if they actually said what they're really feeling, 'i'm fine' isn't actually being used to mean 'i'm fine', also note 'i'm good' and probably a few other phrases also get used in much the same way, 'i'm good' also doesn't mean 'i'm unhappy'

fine is on the positive side of neutral in my experience.
Is your personal first choice important to you? If it is, you will be unhappy if you don’t get it. If you are not unhappy, it didn’t matter.
if i don't get my first choice i may not be AS happy as if i got my first choice, but that by no means means that i will be actively unhappy as a result of getting my second choice because my second choice is still one of my preferred choices, just not my first one. so if both of us can be moderately happy from us both getting our second choices that's still a compromise, a good compromise from where either way one of us is very happy and the other is unhappy.
 

It's in definition of a compromise. A compromise is an agreement in which all parties give up something they want. Giving up something you want is what is meant by "being unhappy" in this context. If you are not unhappy it was not important.
giving something up that you want doesn't automatically rocket you to 'being unhappy', you may give up something you want and be less happy but still happy with the result, but a compromise where both parties are still happy is still a compromise if they've both given up something to get to that point, a compromise where both parties are still happy is the GOAL of compromising.
 

Remove ads

Top