Star Wars Rewatch

In-universe, Star Wars' aesthetic hasn't changed in over 5,000 years. No need for it to do so in another hundred.
In some degrees it hasn't changed, but I think one nice thing about the various SW TV series out there is the broadening of Star Wars aesthetics. Even looking at Andor season 2, we've already got some very different environments in effect from Coruscant and Chandrila to Mina-Rau, Yavin IV, and Ghorman.
 

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Slightly chonkier lightsabers, maybe. Not much else. And it was you suggesting the need for a change of aesthetic, so why does it now not make sense?
No, I wasn't suggesting that was "needed".

I was suggesting that would "likely happen".

These are different things.

Yeah, but in this instance it's a feature - gain some distance from the trash fire.
That's not how Disney sees the well over $1bn+ grossing sequels though, is it?

That's how certain people on the internet - mostly American Gen X men - see them. If I talk to actual xennial, millennial and older Gen Z real-life humans I know, whilst opinions vary, none of them see any of the sequels as "trash fires", not even TRoS, because normal, non-internet people don't go around calling movies "trash fires" unless they're truly offensively bad, which not even TRoS was in reality (and don't get me wrong, I'm internet, I see TRoS as a "trash fire", I suck too). They might say "Well the last one was kind of crap, wasn't it?" or "That middle one was a bit weird!", usually before complimenting some aspect of the movie in question to show they aren't "weird" haters.

For Disney, that's all valuable IP that they've already wrapped into the main series of movies and isn't something that they're going to discard, nor should they, given the grosses and the huge amount of merch they moved - I don't know about post-TRoS, but certainly post-TLJ, the sequels were still moving insane amounts of merch.
 

In some degrees it hasn't changed, but I think one nice thing about the various SW TV series out there is the broadening of Star Wars aesthetics. Even looking at Andor season 2, we've already got some very different environments in effect from Coruscant and Chandrila to Mina-Rau, Yavin IV, and Ghorman.
Haven't watched Andor yet, but the other tv series that are (mostly) not showing us the same old characters have had some good (and bad) stuff. There is plenty of galaxy out there. Just give us Jedi and something bad for them to fight......Personally, and I know not everyone agrees....the Acolyte could have been great, if it had been about the bad guy and the acolyte, not the dysfunctional Jedi. They brought in new force users (for those of us that aren't fully immersed) which could have been good.
 

No, I wasn't suggesting that was "needed".

I was suggesting that would "likely happen".

These are different things.

I don't think the Star Wars aesthetic will change any time soon. But it has nothing to do with the movies. It's the parks. I've been to Disney World and visited Galaxy's Edge. It's big, beautiful, and immersive. And Disney has a huge interest in making sure the aesthetic of the movies matches the aesthetic of the theme park until they want to do their next makeover.

I would also say that the Star Wars aesthetic changed (notably, but not completely) between the original trilogy to the prequel trilogy. The sequels have all been vastly closer to the originals.
 
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I would also say that the Star Wars aesthetic changed (notably, but not completely) between the original trilogy to the prequel trilogy. The sequels have all been vastly closer to the originals.
Oh for sure agree. Not sure if that was a good thing or a bad thing, but it was definitely a thing.
 

No, I wasn't suggesting that was "needed".

I was suggesting that would "likely happen".

These are different things.


That's not how Disney sees the well over $1bn+ grossing sequels though, is it?

That's how certain people on the internet - mostly American Gen X men - see them. If I talk to actual xennial, millennial and older Gen Z real-life humans I know, whilst opinions vary, none of them see any of the sequels as "trash fires", not even TRoS, because normal, non-internet people don't go around calling movies "trash fires" unless they're truly offensively bad, which not even TRoS was in reality (and don't get me wrong, I'm internet, I see TRoS as a "trash fire", I suck too). They might say "Well the last one was kind of crap, wasn't it?" or "That middle one was a bit weird!", usually before complimenting some aspect of the movie in question to show they aren't "weird" haters.

For Disney, that's all valuable IP that they've already wrapped into the main series of movies and isn't something that they're going to discard, nor should they, given the grosses and the huge amount of merch they moved - I don't know about post-TRoS, but certainly post-TLJ, the sequels were still moving insane amounts of merch.
4+ billion gross. The net for all 3 is under a billion. It approaches a billion when you add Rogue One and Solo.

If you add the TV shows, then the cost of SW may outweigh the profits. D+ has not really made a profit.

Merch sales are down significantly when compared to pre-Disney.

As for Gen Z or Alpha. They live with me and hate the sequels. My son saw them all in theaters. He refuses to rewatch them with me and none of his friends even think about SW other than the kid named Anakin.

I do not see the sequels as dumpster fires but they damaged the brand or the constant click baits designed to make people fight damaged the brand.

I would not mind seeing Finn again and maybe Rey if she was alongside Finn but that is it for sequel characters.

The local vintage toy shop who has gained some net fame will not buy any sequel stuff. Then again, Hasbro killed SW toys.
 

In some degrees it hasn't changed, but I think one nice thing about the various SW TV series out there is the broadening of Star Wars aesthetics. Even looking at Andor season 2, we've already got some very different environments in effect from Coruscant and Chandrila to Mina-Rau, Yavin IV, and Ghorman.
Indeed, so whatever limited change of aesthetics that would represent a hundred-year timeskip would be easy enough to implement, no real impediment to any new project.
 

If you add the TV shows, then the cost of SW may outweigh the profits. D+ has not really made a profit.
So? And? The TV shows are all set in the pre-sequel eras (except the kids cartoon Resistance). So they're hardly relevant to the sequel IP discussion.

Also Disney+ is pulling a profit now and has been for over a year. Q4 2024 was $321m in profit, for example. Not insane money but it's money and more importantly it's been increasing and is likely to continue to. They certainly made some loss-leading decisions in order to get people to subscribe previously, but that's how it goes.

Merch sales are down significantly when compared to pre-Disney.
Not even slightly true from the figures I've seen, so I'm going to dismiss that claim lol.

As for Gen Z or Alpha. They live with me and hate the sequels. My son saw them all in theaters. He refuses to rewatch them with me and none of his friends even think about SW other than the kid named Anakin.
That's why I said "older Gen Z". About 35-40% of younger male Gen Z/alpha currently have fairly extreme far-right-adjacent opinions, including an absolute ton of misogyny, homophobia and racism. I'm definitely not saying your son is anything like that, to be very clear, for all I know he's super-cool and I will assume that, but certainly a significant proportion of male kids he knows in his life or at school will be, probably including at least some of his friends. The same is not true of women/girls in that generation, notably (so there's a divide). Keeping their male kids from becoming like that is a major concern for most of the parents I know.

Disney are fundamentally in a bit of trouble there. Either they cater to these opinions held by a big minority of male kids, and annoy girls and the majority of male kids, or they're going to lose popularity with them. My guess? They don't cater, because they've survived eras where most people keen on them were female before.

It's also possible younger Gen Z/alpha change their views as they grow up and have to actually live in the world, it's too soon to tell.
 

It could be because I grew up with them. But imo the prequels are fanastic movies, much better than they get credit for.

Lucas is just so good at visual storytelling. There's a line from George Miller that I love -- movies are visual music. And the prequels capture that. Think of this scene from Revenge, really the turning point of whole saga, and it's played beautifully, with no dialogue.

And then, I think of mythology, and this idea of universal archetypes and the resampling of old material. Similar ideas, similar motifs occur--think of the universality of the flood story, for example--but they're transposed or reordered or reinterpreted to create something fresh and new. And Lucas is the best at this. It's obvious how he does this on a plot level; the destruction of the trade federation battleship mirrors the death star, the death of Qui-Gon is the death of Obi Wan; but he also does it visually. You've probably seen the compilation of scenes here.

This starts with the very first shot of TPM: the camera pans and we see a small ship approaching a large ship, moving from left to right. Compare ANH: we see a small ship fleeing a large ship, moving right to left. See the structure of Palpatine's chamber at the start of Revenge vs Return; the same chair, at the bottom of the stairs in Revenge, atop them in Return. There's certain shots that are identical, like Anakin watching Palpatine's use of force lightning in Revenge and Return.

All of this is deliberate. (George Miller, incidentally, does exactly the same thing in Furiosa, sampling shots from both the Mad Max saga and world mythology; e.g., he has Achilles dragging Hector's body around the walls of Troy).

This amplifies the feeling of inevitability in the prequels, it gives it a kind of weight and heft and universality that speaks to me.

The most impressive thing about Lucas, imo, is that he manages this while never feeling derivative. TFA is a less skilled filmmaker trying the same thing, and you see it, and think "this is ANH remix". But from ANH itself Lucas is already just reworking existing material (Hidden Fortress, Flash Gordon, The Good the Bad and the Ugly). In the prequels he continues this--there's material from Ben-Hur, for example--while simultaneously injecting his own content. But its not just derivative; its an incredibly creative work, even inspiring its own legion of derivatives. He has such a deep and broad knowledge of cinema and he combines all of these influences masterfully.
 

It could be because I grew up with them. But imo the prequels are fanastic movies, much better than they get credit for.
It is interesting how this is for different generations

Lucas is just so good at visual storytelling. There's a line from George Miller that I love -- movies are visual music. And the prequels capture that. Think of this scene from Revenge, really the turning point of whole saga, and it's played beautifully, with no dialogue.
I do agree he is a very good visual storyteller. My feelings about the original trilogy are all bound up in the way they use images and music. I remember an interview where Lucas says the star wars films are done like Silent movies and I can totally see that.

For me the prequels have some very great moments and had a lot of potential. Something about them just wasn't firing on all cylinders for me

And then, I think of mythology, and this idea of universal archetypes and the resampling of old material. Similar ideas, similar motifs occur--think of the universality of the flood story, for example--but they're transposed or reordered or reinterpreted to create something fresh and new. And Lucas is the best at this. It's obvious how he does this on a plot level; the destruction of the trade federation battleship mirrors the death star, the death of Qui-Gon is the death of Obi Wan; but he also does it visually. You've probably seen the compilation of scenes here.

This stuff again I think is what makes star wars work. When star wars tries to get specific, that is when it feels like it runs into more problems. But overall I am there for the universal, operatic stuff. The Qui-Gon death scene was fine. That wasn't really a problem for me in the movie.


This starts with the very first shot of TPM: the camera pans and we see a small ship approaching a large ship, moving from left to right. Compare ANH: we see a small ship fleeing a large ship, moving right to left. See the structure of Palpatine's chamber at the start of Revenge vs Return; the same chair, at the bottom of the stairs in Revenge, atop them in Return. There's certain shots that are identical, like Anakin watching Palpatine's use of force lightning in Revenge and Return.

This stuff was totally cool too. My biggest issue though with Revenge of the Sith was the emotional weight just didn't land the way the emotional weight of his redemption in Return. Part of it is I think they miscast Christensen or misused him, but the other part is I think the story got kind of off trying have it be about preventing Padme's death. If they had made it more focused on Anakin's anger and his sense that the Jedi feared him and cut him out, that would have worked better for me. Also the seen where he takes Palpatine as his master, for me, just was undewhelming.

But I get that this movie might have played totally differently for a younger generation. One thought I have had, and I think a lot of younger people might not realize this, is from Return of the Jedi on, my generation had been hearing rumors of another sequel coming and that it might be about Anakin. So we had all this time to develop not just a head cannon about it, but our own mythology that began as conversations on the playground. So by the time the prequels came out, that was like 16 years of anticipation.
All of this is deliberate. (George Miller, incidentally, does exactly the same thing in Furiosa, sampling shots from both the Mad Max saga and world mythology; e.g., he has Achilles dragging Hector's body around the walls of Troy).

This amplifies the feeling of inevitability in the prequels, it gives it a kind of weight and heft and universality that speaks to me.

All this stuff I had zero problem with. Trying to mirror things was fine. There were just places where the movies kind of sagged for me and where the emotional payoff or performances didn't land

The most impressive thing about Lucas, imo, is that he manages this while never feeling derivative. TFA is a less skilled filmmaker trying the same thing, and you see it, and think "this is ANH remix". But from ANH itself Lucas is already just reworking existing material (Hidden Fortress, Flash Gordon, The Good the Bad and the Ugly). In the prequels he continues this--there's material from Ben-Hur, for example--while simultaneously injecting his own content. But its not just derivative; its an incredibly creative work, even inspiring its own legion of derivatives. He has such a deep and broad knowledge of cinema and he combines all of these influences masterfully.

Here I will agree. Even with the prequels, he is a master at taking all of his influences and making them into something completely new (but where you can still make out the contours of what he is drawing from in a way that adds to the experience and doesn't take away from it: you know what genre he is drawing from instantly and he uses it to communicate to the audience).
 

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