Star Wars Rewatch

[Bedrockgames]

I think it's inexplicable for EU Luke, was like Super-Luke.

I don't think it's inexplicable for a Luke who came from the OT but didn't do all the EU stuff.

This is where I think the disconnect is. People see this saintly, super-experienced EU Luke, who has had countless adventures as the good guy, but that's not the scenario here I think.

I haven't read any of the EU stuff. I am just going by original trilogy Luke (I am actually not some massive Star Wars fan: I liked the original trilogy, I saw the prequels because I liked the first trilogy and I watched the new movies hoping they would be good; but I don't have any interest in watching other films set in the star wars universe or reading books that expand the lore) . To me this was very much out of keeping with Luke's established character in the OT

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Star Wars just has an established mood and style.

If we followed this logic Andor wouldn't have happened.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I haven't read any of the EU stuff. I am just going by original trilogy Luke (I am actually not some massive Star Wars fan: I liked the original trilogy, I saw the prequels because I liked the first trilogy and I watched the new movies hoping they would be good; but I don't have any interest in watching other films set in the star wars universe or reading books that expand the lore) . To me this was very much out of keeping with Luke's established character in the OT

For god's sake man, please watch the scene.

You were literally wrong in how you were describing it. If you can't admit that, I don't know what to say.

 

[Bedrockgames]

No. That's literally, textually wrong. I know neither of us have seen the movie for a while, so here is the scene:

Again, this goes way beyond what anyone normally thinks of as a lapse of judgment. He senses evil in his nephew and is about to kill him. That isn't something you can dismiss as a lapse in judgment. If your brother is watching your son, and points a gun at his head because he thinks he was going to do something awful: that would not be described by anyone as a lapse in judgment

 

[Bedrockgames]

For god's sake man, please watch the scene.

You were literally wrong in how you were describing it. If you can't admit that, I don't know what to say.

I did watch the scene. I have a completely different take on this than you do. There is nothing about that that feels in character with Luke from OT

 

[The Firebird]

It is absolutely described as a momentary lapse in judgement!!!! ALMOST LITERALLY! Luke says "and with the briefest moment of pure instinct".

Imo the point is that choosing to kill a child is not a momentary lapse in judgement even if it you only consider it for a second. It is not a "lapse".

The closest parallel in the OT is here. I don't have a huge problem with the scene in TLJ, because I think it is similar to Luke's behavior there. That said, he was also isolated and vulnerable to the dark side and fighting someone who had fought him previously. I can understand if someone sees them as so different to be out of character.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I think it's inexplicable for EU Luke, was like Super-Luke.

I don't think it's inexplicable for a Luke who came from the OT but didn't do all the EU stuff.

This is where I think the disconnect is. People see this saintly, super-experienced EU Luke, who has had countless adventures as the good guy, but that's not the scenario here I think.


It's not "morally gray".

Bringing that up suggests you aren't understanding the scene. The film's position is that Luke would have been entirely wrong to murder Kylo Ren, even if it's what Prequel Era Jedi would have done (and it is what they would have done, by and large).


No. That's literally, textually wrong. I know neither of us have seen the movie for a while, so here is the scene:




It is absolutely described as a momentary lapse in judgement!!!! ALMOST LITERALLY! Luke says "and with the briefest moment of pure instinct".

So let's be clear, the sequence of events is:

1) Luke realizes Ben Solo is falling to the Dark Side.

2) Having failed to stop this, Luke goes to Ben Solo's room to do some kind of Jedi mind-scan/soul-scan to see how far he has fallen. He explictly has not come to kill him. His lightsaber is not in his hand, he's there to find out.

3) Luke BELIEVES that he sees that Ben Solo has completely and totally fallen to the Dark Side, and serves Snoke. This is surprising to Luke and he wasn't expecting it - that shows you are proven wrong when you claim Luke was planning a murder. Don't take it too hard, you haven't seen the scene for a long time, neither had I, but that's a fact! Luke would not have been surprised if he was planning to kill him, he merely would have been saddened.

Now believes is important here, because if you watch the scene, it seems like Luke might think he was tricked - presumably by Snoke or the Dark Side itself, perhaps exaggerating how far Ben Solo had fallen.

4) "and with the briefest moment of pure instinct" - i.e. a momentary lapse of judgement - Luke draws his lightsaber and considers striking down Ben Solo. Only considers, and only in that moment. This was textually not a planned murder.

5) Ben Solo wakes up and is like "WHAT THE F*** MAN?!?!" - and Luke realizes he's just a scared child. This again is indicative of Luke being in some what tricked by the Dark Side of the Force, because he goes from seeing this terrible threat to "just a kid"

(Now we might want to recall that this bloodline has something of a habit of killing kids... just saying... them younglings!)

This just seems like you are jumping through a ton of hoops to explain something that doesn't feel believable for Luke Skywalker. Again, Luke is the guy whose father served at the right hand of the Emperor, and who was adamant there was good in him. I am sorry but that isn't the character we are seeing in that scene. And it doesn't matter how momentary or instinctual it was, he had an impulse to murder his own nephew. I get what they were going for in that scene. And it would have been effective with a character for whom it made sense. It just didn't make sense to me for Luke to be doing that

 

[Bedrockgames]

Imo the point is that choosing to kill a child is not a momentary lapse in judgement even if it you only consider it for a second. It is not a "lapse".

This. There is no lapse there. You are revealing something about yourself if you do that. You aren't just slipping up for a moment

 

[Bedrockgames]

If we followed this logic Andor wouldn't have happened.

Again, I don't really have an interest in these kinds of spinoffs, but at least there you are dealing with a separate series. This was the new trilogy and it seemed at least to be aiming for the style and mood of the OT

 

[Bedrockgames]

Also I will say Mark Hamil does a good Job with what he is given in that scene. The performance is very good. The writing just makes no sense to me