D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

[Micah Sweet]

But they are expecting bad things from their GMs, because they've often seen it plenty of times. They just aren't expecting the GM to be doing the deliberately.

Doesn't matter to me. I don't enjoy the kinds of constraints on the GMs role these game present and their players support, and I really don't like the idea that those constraints were put into place to protect players from bad actions, intended or otherwise, on the part of GMs. If I don't like the game, I just don't play. If that means I don't play often, that a shame but so be it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Sure. But it still has some of the problems you always had (in terms of availability of games--the fact there's a much larger pool to fish from just means the numbers flatten out rather than having one area that has a half-dozen GMs willing to run game X and another area has one (if that), but it still doesn't mean the number of GMs willing to run the kind of games you want isn't exceeded by the number of player looking for them, and this can be compounded by issues of who's running what on which platform), and some new ones to boot. Its an improvement, but it hasn't made the problem disappear.

Like I said, better than it used to be. Still an issue, but improvement is improvement.

 

[AlViking]

It may well reduce the incidence of problems, however. In fact, in some cases I'll outright say its likely a given.



I just think in many cases its far away from just a "hope", and doesn't produce nearly as much of a need for potential confrontations (that many GMs have been taught to react negatively to).

I just disagree. Changing the rules is rarely, if ever, going to transform a GM. If they need help with world building as an example, nothing in D&D says they can't do that. If they need to run NPC more convincingly, give them feedback on how to do it. I've given feedback to GMs on multiple occasions and it usually works.

Giving someone feedback is not confrontational.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Like I said, better than it used to be. Still an issue, but improvement is improvement.

Sure, but note the person I was responding to in this subthread said it was a "non-issue". Bluntly, that's just nonsense.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I just disagree. Changing the rules is rarely, if ever, going to transform a GM. If they need help with world building as an example, nothing in D&D says they can't do that. If they need to run NPC more convincingly, give them feedback on how to do it. I've given feedback to GMs on multiple occasions and it usually works.

Then you do. I absolutely think it can help in a lot of contexts.

Giving someone feedback is not confrontational.

Any number of people clearly feel to the contrary, and that's obvious when you watch it occur.

 

[robertsconley]

This is only true when everyone A) Has equal access to remote play, and B) finds it at all acceptable.

While VTT has grown in importance, digital technology has also had an impact on face-to-face social interactions. Namely, in the form of smartphones and social media, making it easier for people with similar interests to find each other and organize activities together. Particularly among those in their teens and 20s.

Neither of those is as consistent as this position would seem to suggest. Even if they're willing, it can be extremely difficult to find a remote game that works for some people, and variance in time zones is not a trivial element there.

The fact you are complaining about work involved with time zones demonstrates my point. The fact that an ongoing campaign is even possible among people living in different time zones shows how radically the situation has changed.

What makes the dominance of D&D a non-issue is the result of different factors in combination, which make the tabletop role-playing hobby landscape vastly different for niche interests in 2024 than it was in 1994.

The barriers for production, distribution, promotion, and play have lowered dramatically. To the point where concepts for tabletop roleplaying can thrive even if they only have an audience numbered in the hundreds.

Earlier, I said that DriveThruRPG was a chokepoint, and in many ways, it still is. However, even that issue is slowly being resolved by the use of crowdfunding in the hobby and industry.

I had some firsthand experience in this regard starting in the early 2000s.

 

[mamba]

People characterized their approach as being the only one they could stomach because it was verisimilitudinous/realistic/"based on real-world logic" etc. They also repeatedly portrayed PbtA and various other things as inherently unrealistic, indeed antagonistic to the very possibility of realism.

since you quoted me there, I consider a good GM to be better at dealing with situations than some static rules text, that is all I wrote.

I rather have the DM do what makes sense in the situation than to always follow the rules to the letter no matter what, just so they cannot be accused of railroading

If you take that as ‘PbtA makes no sense’, that is on you

 

[Thomas Shey]

While VTT has grown in importance, digital technology has also had an impact on face-to-face social interactions. Namely, in the form of smartphones and social media, making it easier for people with similar interests to find each other and organize activities together. Particularly among those in their teens and 20s.


The fact you are complaining about work involved with time zones demonstrates my point. The fact that an ongoing campaign is even possible among people living in different time zones shows how radically the situation has changed.

I'm not unaware of how things have changed, but I'm still of the opinion that "non-issue" is hyperbole at best.

 

[robertsconley]

But it there is an issue of how to address it. My approach would be to talk to the GM, discuss my issues and give advice and feedback. I don't think changing the rules of the game will make a mediocre GM into a better GM. Their influence on the campaign may change, but doesn't make them better at their role at the table.

Many of the techniques I use had their origins in being taught about small group interaction at where I work and from the training I got from being involved in youth organizations and sports organizations. The difference in quality and depth of techniques is profound enough that I seriously question the wisdom of the RPG authors in trying to do the same thing when writing an RPG book.

Meanwhile maybe I just accept that most GMs are not <insert your favorite GM ever> and we're all just doing our best to have a fun game. I don't let perfect get in the way of good enough or grouse about it when a GM doesn't cater to my specific needs. Every GM in existence could improve, I'd rather help them improve than change the nature of the game in the hopes that it will make a difference.

Yup, along with the fact that tabletop roleplaying for most is just a fun pasttime they do with the time they have for a hobby.

 

[robertsconley]

I'm not unaware of how things have changed, but I'm still of the opinion that "non-issue" is hyperbole at best.

As I said, I had some experience in this, and no, it's not hyperbole. The best way to see how radically it changed is to try it for yourself. And so we are clear, it not magic, it still work, often hard work, but things are possible now that were not before. And amount of support a single author or a small group can give to a niche has been greatly amplified to the point that the decisive factors are

• How much time do you have?
• How well do you interact with an audience?
• How authentic do you come across as?