What Does the RPG Hobby Need Now?

[Scribe]

So your suggestion is to actively remove an aspect of play you don't like?

Games which require prep still exist. More simple, streamlined games could use some exposure. One of the main issues in the RPG space is the thinking that its a zero sum game.

 

[Dire Bare]

It’s one that’s done an exemplary job of distinguishing itself from D&D, yes.



As I said, I get all of that but I do feel that there’s a lot of noise in the RPG space. If a designer’s goal is to do their version of D&D, I’m going to suggest that in and of itself, is not as compelling as they may think.

And yet . . . the most successful and talked about RPGs are "fantasy heartbreakers" or D&D adjacent games, like Shadowdark. So, clearly compelling to a large segment of the fandom.

Shadowdark is an awesome game and take on the genre, but it is very much a D&D-style game, a "fantasy heartbreaker".

 

[Dire Bare]

I think what he might be saying is not LITERALLY "where are these other game genres?" but more along the line of "where are these games on the level of popularity of a D&D or a Pathfinder or a Shadowdark". As in people do flock toward what's popular and D&D has almost always been the most well known and popular TTRPG.

I'm sure that he'll correct me if I'm wrong.

It would be cool if another RPG rose to the level of popularity D&D has enjoyed for 50 years now . . .

But good luck with that!

D&D is the originator of the genre and remains a very compelling game. Gygax and Arneson captured lightning in a bottle, which is incredibly difficult to do once, let alone twice.

Not that RPG publishers shouldn't strive for that level of success, several do! But how exactly would a publisher go about rivaling D&D, other than making the best game they can?

 

[TiQuinn]

And yet . . . the most successful and talked about RPGs are "fantasy heartbreakers" or D&D adjacent games, like Shadowdark. So, clearly compelling to a large segment of the fandom.

Shadowdark is an awesome game and take on the genre, but it is very much a D&D-style game, a "fantasy heartbreaker".

Yes, but my point is Shadowdark is succeeding in ways that other games in the same space are not.

 

[Dire Bare]

Cheap pre painted minatures.

In 2003 Harbringer had 16 Minatures, a map, a book, stat cards, and dice for $20 MSRP. That's $34 in today money which will get you about 8 minatures no map, no stat card, no dice, or book.

I could find the MSRP of Dragoneye or other non starter sets without the map and rules, but they were a bargain back then especially at a discount from Amazon.

That ship sailed long ago. Inflation, rising costs of plastics and shipping, and now tariffs . . .

Relatively inexpensive UNPAINTED minis are starting to be a thing . . . there are several boxed sets on Amazon (and probably other retailers) that are of reasonable quality and price.

 

[Dire Bare]

If the many iterations of the Star Wars RPGs could not dethrone D&D, nothing ever will. I am not sure why that is, but the evidence is clear. It has been 50 years and there has been every possible license, genre and style.

I think it's possible . . . but very difficult to pull off.

A lot of the other things we're discussing in this thread, if incorporated into a new RPG . . . could help that RPG truly rival D&D in popularity.

 

[Dire Bare]

Holy crap.

That's fine, Reynard, I don't understand responses like yours.

I can find other games. I'm also lucky in the fact that I have a DM is also into finding and trying new game systems. The rest of the table that I sit at doesn't know too much else about other games outside of D&D and Pathfinder. They don't know what Tales of the Valiant is, or what Level Up would bring to the table for them, or why they should be excited about Daggerheart. Yesterday, one player said "I heard you guys say OSR. What does that mean?" This was the same player who's head spun around when he saw how deadly Mothership was compared to another sci-fi game we played, Lancer. There are players and DMs who are knowledgeable and have to be both teacher and cheerleader for the game system. Couldn't tell you why the hell I'd want to play Shadow of the Weird Wizard. Hear lots of good things about 13th Age. Haven't the slightest idea how to pitch it to my group and make them want to play it versus 5e D&D.

But honestly, I even find myself struggling sometimes. Sorry, not perfect. Not as dialed in like you. Ain't got my finger on the pulse all the time. Also any idea how many people have suggested systems that, to be really nice, are so inscrutable and inaccessible that I couldn't even be fully honest with how much they just suck? I don't read every system out there just for grins.

In short, I'm not talking about me not being able to find other systems - I'm saying TTRPG designers in general often suck at marketing their game, even when they have someone in front of them asking what their game is about. SUCK at it.

Edit: And not to put it entirely on the designers of these games, the general YT, influencer community promoting said games fall into the same patterns and ruts in promoting those games also.

That was not clear in your initial post. At all.

Yes, the problem isn't that there aren't plenty of not-D&D games, but that more casual fans aren't learning about them. So, how can the industry improve on that beyond "better marketing"?

 

[TiQuinn]

That was not clear in your initial post. At all.

Yes, the problem isn't that there aren't plenty of not-D&D games, but that more casual fans aren't learning about them. So, how can the industry improve on that beyond "better marketing"?

Sorry for my initial post being unclear. Is it clear to you now?

 

[paradisebunny]

Wow. Great question. Huge and sweeping.

What's missing? Just about anything that's not directed at predominantly white, middle-class guys with lots of disposable income and heaps of free time.

Getting into the hobby? Cheaper books, less reliance on expensive on-ramping materials, lighter rules, less math, less homework, more pick-up-and-play, more solo RPGs, and a lot of other things along a similar vein.

Engage more? Mostly the same as above. Less expensive hobby overall with less math and homework, lighter rules, pick-up-and-play, solo play, etc.

Underserved? Anything that's not action-adventure power fantasy set in a fantasy world. Games exist that aren't those, but they're decidedly niche and practically invisible. The audiences that like those other kinds of games are therefore underserved. Sure there's a smattering of sci-fi horror mystery and the odd western, but compared to fantasy they're a tiny fraction of the hobby. To say nothing of every other genre. Romance, cozy, non-violence, community focused, community building, etc. Yes, I'm aware there's like two games that might handle one of those, but that more proves my point than disproves it.

Fully agree with this. It’s all about meeting people where they are and not trying to sell them the ttrpg experience that us of a certain gender, age and complexion happen to like. Oh you loved white lotus? There is way to play a murder mystery in a luxury resort, let me show you this awesome thing called roleplaying games! you’re into romance novels and classic literature, let me show you something awesome we could play! You liked the show solo leveling, let’s play an urban contemporary fantasy game that you’ll love.

 

[Reynard]

I think it's possible . . . but very difficult to pull off.

A lot of the other things we're discussing in this thread, if incorporated into a new RPG . . . could help that RPG truly rival D&D in popularity.

I don't think there has ben any shortage of compelling RPGs with designs that make them broadly accessible and potetnially a rival.

They haven't succeeded because of inertia. Like any other industry where there is a standard with a massive lead, is does not matter how good the new guy is. It almost never out performs the standard. The time for there to be a viable D&D alternative was 1981.