D&D General I'm a Fighter, not a Lover: Why the 1e Fighter was so Awesome

[Maxperson]

Heaviest armor wasn't the best.

Full plate didn't exist and the weaker armors usually came with higher Enchantment bonuses.

+3-5 chainmail was a lot more common than +3-5 plate mail.

By level 3 it wasn't unusual to see +1 armor, weapons, elven cloak and boots sometimes gauntlets of ogre power.

+3 and 4 weapons/atmor started turning up around level 4-7.

1e didn't work that way if you were rolling treasure randomly. Even low level creatures had lairs with treasure that could include magic items. There was only one chart for armor, so you could theoretically find +5 plate at 1st level. Also, the 1e DMG didn't have chain mail higher than +3. Splint went to +4 and plate to +5. Leather, ring mail and studded leather only had +1.

I rolled 4 random magic items and got.

1. Bracers of Defenselessness. Oops!
2. Long Sword +2, Dragon Slayer.
3. Hammer +2.
4. Shield +5(super lucky here).

As you note it wasn't unusual to see several magic items by level 3. Nothing kept them to weaker items unless the DM arranged it that way.

 

[Zardnaar]

1e didn't work that way if you were rolling treasure randomly. Even low level creatures had lairs with treasure that could include magic items. There was only one chart for armor, so you could theoretically find +5 plate at 1st level. Also, the 1e DMG didn't have chain mail higher than +3. Splint went to +4 and plate to +5. Leather, ring mail and studded leather only had +1.

I rolled 4 random magic items and got.

1. Bracers of Defenselessness. Oops!
2. Long Sword +2, Dragon Slayer.
3. Hammer +2.
4. Shield +5(super lucky here).

As you note it wasn't unusual to see several magic items by level 3. Nothing kept them to weaker items unless the DM arranged it that way.

That's random loot. Adventures are different.

Ran a few recently. Fighter ended up with AC 24 or 25 by 7th level iirc.

My druid had AC -7 (27). Level 12 (funky cp table).

 

[mixmastashizz]

1e didn't work that way if you were rolling treasure randomly. Even low level creatures had lairs with treasure that could include magic items. There was only one chart for armor, so you could theoretically find +5 plate at 1st level. Also, the 1e DMG didn't have chain mail higher than +3. Splint went to +4 and plate to +5. Leather, ring mail and studded leather only had +1.

I rolled 4 random magic items and got.

1. Bracers of Defenselessness. Oops!
2. Long Sword +2, Dragon Slayer.
3. Hammer +2.
4. Shield +5(super lucky here).

As you note it wasn't unusual to see several magic items by level 3. Nothing kept them to weaker items unless the DM arranged it that way.

The DMG also notes below the magic item table that the DM should feel free to alter or adjust magic items to not destroy the balance of the game. So the rules expected for the DM to arrange it so that the items were appropriate for the party.

And if you mess up, a well placed fireball or other AOE attack could destroy the items if they fail their item saves

 

[Maxperson]

That's random loot. Adventures are different.

Ran a few recently. Fighter ended up with AC 24 or 25 by 7th level iirc.

My druid had AC -7 (27). Level 12 (funky cp table).

Yeah. Published adventures were different.

 

[Sacrosanct]

After every encounter or two?

Maybe if those encounters are layering the treasure on thick and deep and if one is giving xp for treasure. Otherwise, IME it's fairly rare that they'll break mid-adventure for traininng unless over half the party has bumped or a specific character's training could make a big difference (e.g. they can't get past a door but their MU has bumped to 3rd; so go back to town, train her up, then hope she can find and learn Knock).

Once they're between adventures, though, my experience is they're usually happy to wait in town until everyone's finished training, no matter how long it takes.

Sure. I agree. But that's kinda the point. The bard won't jump from level 1 thief to level 4 thief right away even though the rest of the party got 12,000 XP during that delve, because anything after 1,250 xp was not gained by the thief character.

Which means that the bard character won't just zip past all those thief and bard levels while the core fighter only gains one level. And honestly, the biggest hurdle to leveling up the bard quickly isn't the gold training requirements, its the training time requirements. All those giants in G1-3 aren't going to just sit around for weeks and months while the PCs go in, clear a couple rooms, and go back for a week or two of training and then come back.

I suspect that even though they are much lower level in their dual class, the bard PC would only level up slightly faster as the rest of the party.

 

[Voadam]

Even if that were the case, same net result: you only level once per down time.

I was never in a game where someone was able to level twice at one time, even when I played a human dual class character and was going from first level in my second class and was adventuring with higher level characters. For my experiences this was a theoretical limit on gaining xp but not an actual one that ever came up.

If it was right after gaining enough to go up a level that would happen everytime people levelled, it would be extremely rare to get exactly the specific number of xp that you needed and not one more.

 

[Voadam]

In B/X Basic it is clear for the xp maximum:

"MAXIMUM XP: A character should never be given enough XP in a single adventure to advance more than one level of experience. For example, if a beginning (0 XP) 1st level fighter earns 5000 XP (a rare and outstanding achievement), he or she should only be given 3999 XP, enough to place the character 1 XP short of 3rd level."

In the 1e DMG it is less clearly written, but looking at it now I think it stops you at exactly the minimum xp for the new level until you get training and get the new level:

"Thus, a character who successfully adventures and gains experience points which not only equal a new level but are almost sufficient to gain yet a second such level, cannot opt to forego the period of training and study necessary to go up a level in favor of gaining a few more points and training and studying for two levels at once. ONCE A CHARACTER HAS POINTS WHICH ARE EQUAL TO OR GREATER THAN THE MINIMUM NUMBER NECESSARY TO MOVE UPWARDS IN EXPERIENCE LEVEL, NO FURTHER EXPERIENCE POINTS CAN BE GAINED UNTIL THE CHARACTER ACTUALLY GAINS THE NEW LEVEL."

The first half talks about characters gaining more than the new level's minimum consistent with B/X, but then the all caps says when you have equal to or greater than the minimum for a new level you gain no more until you train and level. The or greater I guess means it cuts off after you collate xp from an adventure, I guess when your gold counts for xp.

"Treasure must be physically taken out of the dungeon or lair and turned into a transportable medium or stored in the player’s stronghold to be counted for experience points."

 

[Voadam]

So to get back to the fighter, the ranged weapons thing is pretty striking.

Sling is not on the 1e PH cleric weapons list table although the class description only prohibits edged or pointed weapons. In B/X it is explicitly called out as allowed as a non-cutting edge weapon and in 2e they are allowed as bludgeoning damage weapons. 1e PH thieves get slings with a decent range and OK damage, but no shortbows with the two shots rate of fire until UA (in B/X they can use any weapon). Druids can use slings too.

Archery being a fighter exclusive thing is a fairly unique aspect to the 1e PH (in OE thieves were restricted to only using magic swords and daggers and not other magic weapons, no direct discussion of non-magic weapons). From B/X and 1e UA on fighters lose that exclusivity edge.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yeah. Published adventures were different.

Yeah +3 weapons could be low expert levels while +2 were late basic.

Not just Gygax adventures either. Frostbrand might drop level 5 you would still be using it 5-10 levels later.

 

[mixmastashizz]

My final thoughts are that there were two fundamental changes that created the linear fighter quadratic wizard problem (at least for 5e, cant speak for 3/3.5):

1. Making all classes generally at parity for chance to hit and for damage (removing the fighter niche)
2. Removing spell interruption in the combat system (vastly strengthening magic users)