D&D General What spells should be on the rangers list?

[Minigiant]

When you say "the D&D community", I assume you mean the community for WotC's current game?

The WHOLE D&D community and and the community of adjacent games that broke off official D&D

 

[Micah Sweet]

The WHOLE D&D community and and the community of adjacent games that broke off official D&D

The relative success of spell-less ranger variants, both in alternate 5e games like Level Up and in articles like WotC's Unearthed Arcana, show that you are overstating your case.

 

[Minigiant]

I don't consider the exploration stuff minor. It's as important to the class as the 5e rules base allows it to be.

It's weaker.

The class only has a fewer exploration features and knacks over Tier 1. Mostly replicating 1st level spells. A5e redesigns it's entire skill and adventure system to scale Rangers. But if you don't use A5E's Adventure book, you lose all of that scaling.

The ranger's issue was always scaling. Most games just abandon exploration and utility scaling for more damage.

The relative success of spell-less ranger variants, both in alternate 5e games like Level Up and in articles like WotC's Unearthed Arcana, show that you are overstating your case.

A5e rewrote exploration to not require magic.
UA Ranger never printed.
Daggerheart Ranger is magical.
OSR rarely goes past low tier and often requires magic spells or items to do rangery effects.

Fans still want those effects. Only a few games were willing to rewrite their system to allow them without magic.

 

[Tonguez]

You're not hearing what I'm writing.

I'm saying that the D&D Ranger fantasy is a character who can accomplish a set of effects.

So for the sake of debate - what is the Ranger fantasy as you would define it?

for me "Skilled Hunter and Guide thriving on the borders between civilisation and wilderness"
and personally, I dont see anything in that ranger fantasy that requires it cast spells - it does need a better exploration system though and still encompasses the fantastic where the "wilderness" is the natural home of Spirits and Monsters

 

[Micah Sweet]

It's weaker.

The class only has a fewer exploration features and knacks over Tier 1. Mostly replicating 1st level spells. A5e redesigns it's entire skill and adventure system to scale Rangers. But if you don't use A5E's Adventure book, you lose all of that scaling.

The ranger's issue was always scaling. Most games just abandon exploration and utility scaling for more damage.



A5e rewrote exploration to not require magic.
UA Ranger never printed.
Daggerheart Ranger is magical.
OSR rarely goes past low tier and often requires magic spells or items to do rangery effects.

Fans still want those effects. Only a few games were willing to rewrite their system to allow them without magic.

My solution is (obviously) to just use A5e's adventure book.

 

[Minigiant]

So for the sake of debate - what is the Ranger fantasy as you would define it?

for me "Skilled Hunter and Guide thriving on the borders between civilisation and wilderness"

Mine is similar

A Skill Hunter and Survivalist who thrives in civilization, the wilderness, and the borderlands between.

and personally, I dont see anything in that ranger fantasy that requires it cast spells

Again going at it backwards.

The Ranger does not require casting spells.

Most of the things a Ranger requires are only available as magic spells or magic item in D&D.

Magic arrows, magic eyewear, stealth cloaks, environmental clothing, potions, poisons, traps, special blades, shoes for different modes of travel, detection gear, trackers. tracker removal

These are all magic spells or magic items in D&D and 90% of high fantasy games.

Again, I'd prefer Rangers use infusions and crazy personal magic items.

 

[bloodtide]

I do like the Skill Hunter and Survivalist who thrives in civilization, the wilderness, and the borderlands between.

But I don't want them to be all mundane, I want a magical fantasy ranger.

I want a ranger that can....

*Touch an animal corpse and learn how it died, if it was hunted for food or just killed for some other reason
*Speak with animals, plants and nature
*Be able to sense "unnatural" things
*help, heal, cure natural things

And in general have magical skills beyond the mundane

 

[Corinnguard]

Or more the other way, a A5e Fighter can take all the maneuvers that a Ranger has and only lose their subclass and some minor exploration stuff.

True, an A5e Fighter could pick up a proficiency in any two combat traditions at 1st level, including the ones that an A5e Ranger can likewise become proficient in. But they can't lose their subclass any more than a 5.0 or a 5.5 Fighter could. And if someone did decide to role-play an A5e Fighter without the subclass (Narrator permitting), they would lose a chance to pick up a third Combat tradition proficiency. Why would you want to nerf the A5e Fighter anyway? They're a lot better than their 5.0 and 5.5 counterparts thanks to the addition of the exploration and social interaction features.

 

[Tonguez]

I do like the Skill Hunter and Survivalist who thrives in civilization, the wilderness, and the borderlands between.

But I don't want them to be all mundane, I want a magical fantasy ranger.

I want a ranger that can....

*Touch an animal corpse and learn how it died, if it was hunted for food or just killed for some other reason

depending on the age of the carcass I can do that in the real world with just a few minutes of examination. One of my big issues with DnD is when things that should just be skills get turned into spells.

Even the idea of communing with spirits while fantastic is still mundane in a world were the wilderness is full of active spirits who can interact with people, they dont need to be always hostile.

 

[Corinnguard]

Even the idea of communing with spirits while fantastic is still mundane in a world were the wilderness is full of active spirits who can interact with people, they dont need to be always hostile.

If we somehow found ourselves transported into a fantasy setting, things like magic and dragons would seem fantastical to us. However, to someone who grew up and lived in a fantasy setting, the stuff we consider fantastical would be seen as 'mundane' by them. A fantasy Ranger would see themselves as ordinary.