D&D 5E (2024) Weapon mastery tweak.

[mellored]

So most of the complaints I've seen about weapon mastery is about not liking the fact that you need to swap weapons, especially when they get a magic longsword.

So here's a simple houserule to fix that.

Weapon Mastery
When wielding a weapon which you have weapon mastery, you gain the weapon mastery benefit listed. (As normal).

In addition, you can use that weapon as if it was a different weapon, of equal or lesser gold cost, which you also have weapon mastery for. For example, if you choose mastery on longbow (50gp) and quarterstaff (2sp), you can use a longbow as if it was a quarterstaff. Including the damage die, weapon properties, number of hands, mastery, feats and other features and any other qualifications.
Any magic item properties applies as normal. So a +1 Mace would still give a +1 bonus when used as a Trident.

Sidebar: creatively modifying your weapon.
While some weapon can be interchanged without stretching the imagination, like using a Longsword in 2 hands as a Halbred and then swinging in a wide arc to cleave, others may take some creativity to justify. Considering adding descriptions on how you modified your weapon durring downtime to add the extra functionality. Like tying a rope to a Warhammer so you can swing it like a Whip. Or adding a spike to the top of your Battleaxe so you can stab with it as if it was a Pike.
The DM may rule this cost extra gold, which should be the same amount buying both weapons individually.

 

[Pauln6]

Personally, I really dislike the notion that you can draw AND sheath multiple weapons in a 6 second round. I much preferred the 5.14 rule that drawing or sheathing a weapon is either a free object interaction or an action (using one your attacks if you have multiple attacks).

Given that thrown weapons are small and light, and you can draw them as part of the attack action, I would probably keep that for melee attacks as well, which gives fighters specialising in light weapons a reason to exist.

What I would do is beef up the Weapon Mastery feat, which feels like it should have something useful for fightersso that someone with weapon mastery can apply a second mastery to a weapon, or mastery to an exotic weapon such as a particular improvised weapon or shield. The playtest had rules that would help cover this to limit crazy combinations. I suppose you could also give them an extra free object interaction for the purposes of drawing or sheathing a weapon.

Only one mastery can be applied per attack.

 

[Marandahir]

Personally, I really dislike the notion that you can draw AND sheath multiple weapons in a 6 second round. I much preferred the 5.14 rule that drawing or sheathing a weapon is either a free object interaction or an action (using one your attacks if you have multiple attacks).

Given that thrown weapons are small and light, and you can draw them as part of the attack action, I would probably keep that for melee attacks as well, which gives fighters specialising in light weapons a reason to exist.

What I would do is beef up the Weapon Mastery feat, which feels like it should have something useful for fightersso that someone with weapon mastery can apply a second mastery to a weapon, or mastery to an exotic weapon such as a particular improvised weapon or shield. The playtest had rules that would help cover this to limit crazy combinations. I suppose you could also give them an extra free object interaction for the purposes of drawing or sheathing a weapon.

Only one mastery can be applied per attack.

I like ruling at my table that the Link can Draw the Master Sword as part of his attack OR he can sheath it as part of his attack (doing a cool swirly thing with the blade if he killed the bokoblin with it), but he can't draw-attack-sheath all in one 6-sec action (at least not without some sort of time-magic or whatnot.

This allows for Iaijutsu sort of attacks, like the Amakakeu Ryu no Hirameki of the Mitsurugi style, a single killing blow in the same swipe as the drawing of the blade. But if the Manslayer then went to sheath his sword, he'd first get hit with the flying pan from the kitchen (aimed at Sano), that he would.

Examples for illustrative purposes.


As regards to Weapon Mastery, I think allowing you to swap the mastery on a weapon for free is a bit too powerful for my taste - it's a more powerful version of the Fighter's Level 9 class feature. If you're going to give this to all Weapon Masters, you'd need to think up a good replacement feature for Fighters, if you have any at your table (or any who are thinking of MCing).

 

[Horwath]

I like the idea of mastery but not execution, and it still does not make weapon any unique that the used to be and now we even have less diversity between weapons.

every rogue now is scimitar+short sword.

just treat masteries as BM at-will maneuvers.

we can even limit what mastery goes where to a degree:

Cleave: melee 2Handed or Versatile melee
Graze: 2Handed or Versatile
Nick: Light
Push: any non-Light
Sap: Versatile
Slow: any
Topple: any non-Light
Vex: Light, Finesse or Ranged

 

[Marandahir]

I like the idea of mastery but not execution, and it still does not make weapon any unique that the used to be and now we even have less diversity between weapons.

every rogue now is scimitar+short sword.

just treat masteries as BM at-will maneuvers.

we can even limit what mastery goes where to a degree:

Cleave: melee 2Handed or Versatile melee
Graze: 2Handed or Versatile
Nick: Light
Push: any non-Light
Sap: Versatile
Slow: any
Topple: any non-Light
Vex: Light, Finesse or Ranged

I thought it solved the samey-ness problem. Because between weapon mastery properties, fighting style/martial arts/rage/sneak attack, superiority maneuvers, and the various intrinsic weapon properties (light/2H/heavy/reach/etc), nearly every weapon can have it's own martial style built around it.

If nothing else, they finally have a distinguishing feature between Glaive and Halberd.

 

[Pauln6]

I like the idea of mastery but not execution, and it still does not make weapon any unique that the used to be and now we even have less diversity between weapons.

every rogue now is scimitar+short sword.

just treat masteries as BM at-will maneuvers.

we can even limit what mastery goes where to a degree:

Cleave: melee 2Handed or Versatile melee
Graze: 2Handed or Versatile
Nick: Light
Push: any non-Light
Sap: Versatile
Slow: any
Topple: any non-Light
Vex: Light, Finesse or Ranged

I think the scimitar nick ability was purely to facilitate dual wielding scimitars which it does not do effectively because of the short sword. It also makes the real world fighting style of rapier and dagger a specialist fighting style that requires the dual wielder feat, which feels wrong. I'd be interested to know what their comments were regarding the gaps in the weapon styles as it seems poorly thought through for cinematic realism. It feels like clunky game mechanics.

What could be done though to fix this error though? The classic TWF styles are two dagger, rapier and dagger, two short swords, two scimitars, spear/trident and net, sword and hand axe.

Tbh, it feels to me like dagger is the only one that deserves nick but ok, I'm fine with it applying to any of the 1d4 weapons on the list. I think the best way to deal with it for other styles is to make more specialist styles an origin feat specific to each weapon combination. Is that too harsh?

e.g. Dual Scimitar Combat - when wielding 2 add nick as a mastery; Dual short sword combat; Rapier and dagger combat; etc A feat might be worthwhile for a damage boost every round and freeing a bonus action every round?

Another option would be to roll it into the weapon master feat but, again, the incentive would surely be to apply multiple masteries to the smallest number of weapons.

What mastery could replace nick for scimitar though? Sap?

 

[mellored]

What mastery could replace nick for scimitar though? Sap?

The curved blade was designed to be used on horseback, and not get stuck when riding by. So something like...

Skirmish
When you hit with this weapon, you can move 5' without provoking an opportunity attack from the target.

 

[Pauln6]

The curved blade was designed to be used on horseback, and not get stuck when riding by. So something like...

Skirmish
When you hit with this weapon, you can move 5' without provoking an opportunity attack from the target.

Ok so, Weapon Master could look something like:

Weapon Master Feat
General Feat (Prerequisite: Level 4+)
You gain the following benefits.
Ability Score Increase. Increase your Strength or Dexterity score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
Quick Draw: You gain one additional free object interaction on your turn which can be used to draw, sheath, or pick up a weapon.
Mastery Property. Your training with weapons allows you to use a mastery property of one kind of Simple or Martial weapon of your choice, provided you have proficiency with it. Whenever you finish a Long Rest, you can change the kind of weapon to another eligible kind.
If you already have the Weapon Mastery class feature, you can us that class feature to add a Weapon Mastery to a particular Improvised weapon. You also have the ability to enhance a chosen weapon type using your Mastery Property feature. Instead of assigning just one property to a Simple or Martial weapon, you can assign a second mastery to the same weapon. However, you can only apply one property per attack.

The weapon must meet the pre-requisite for the relevant mastery to apply.

CLEAVE - Prerequisite: Melee Weapon, Heavy Property
FLEX - Prerequisite: Versatile, Property
GRAZE - Prerequisite: Melee Weapon, Heavy Property
NICK - Prerequisite: Light Property
PUSH - Prerequisite: Heavy, Two-Handed, or Versatile Property
SAP - Prerequisite: No Other Properties
SKIRMISH - Prerequisite Melee weapon, Slashing or Blunt weapon, Light Property
SLOW - Prerequisite: None
TOPPLE - Prerequisite: Heavy, Reach, or Versatile Property
VEX - Prerequisite: Ammunition, Finesse, or Light Property

I think this makes the Weapon Master feat far less awful. For those without the mastery class feature it makes you able to access one mastery but with more versatility and to draw and sheath a weapon in the same round. For those with weapon mastery already they have the option of adding a second mastery to a weapon, which was something fun from the playtest.

This doesn't fix the issue of encouraging classic two-weapon styles mechanically but it could certainly add more combinations. Having Nick on a Scimitar doesn't really encourage dual scimitar use, unless you want to dance though the battlefield injuring several enemies on the way. Short sword and scimitar would still have more value? Would origin feats with specific weapon combos require less system mastery?