What makes setting lore "actually matter" to the players?

[pemerton]

I'd suggest it also matters whether a player gets into the game interested in playing in faction politics and the like in the first place. It may well be you screen out people who don't (either directly or by simply not offering the kind of play they're interested in), but some will go in expecting your example here to be what they care about anyway and ignore the rest.

Yes. I don't know why you think I (or anyone else) would think otherwise.

 

[pemerton]

I think I'm safe in assuming this information wasn't info-dumped on the player, it was accumulated through play, which is what makes it matter.

The campaign went for around 11 years, from the beginning of 1998 (or thereabouts) to the end of 2008. My estimate is that we played for somewhere over 1000 hours. (In the neighbourhood of 300 sessions.)

The player who prepared this chart joined in the second or third year (I can't remember now). At a certain point - I think some time in 2007 - he decided to write up the chart in order to consolidate his and everyone else's notes, about who everyone was and how they were all related to one another.

 

[Edgar Ironpelt]

I think the question is driving precisely around (or through) what you're saying---what properties must lore possess to make it such that the players cannot ignore it because it represents a real, tangible material aspect or aspects in play?

Of course if the "lore doesn't matter" then "caring about the lore" is purely a matter of preference.

I'm asking to dig deeper---what properties of setting lore make it so that "the lore does matter" and that players are compelled to care about it or play cannot continue?

It depends on what the players care about. It depends on the style of play that the players are looking for.

Players of a simulationist bent want setting lore that's solid world-building and that they can hook their PC into, to make their PCs part of that world, as opposed to characters who might as well be (and in some cases actually are) player-run random Outsider encounters from some unknown dimension.

Players of a narrativist bent want setting lore that has thematic and dramatic meanings and implications, where a PC's background (race, 'heritage,' ethnic origin, heck even sex - whether the PC is male or female) has significant and meaningful effects on the stories that can or can't be told about the PC.

Players of a gamist bent want setting lore that opens up tactical and strategic options for, and imposes interesting limitations on, the challenges that their PCs face.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Yes. I don't know why you think I (or anyone else) would think otherwise.

Because I've seen people act like its unfathomable? I'm surprised you haven't seen that too.

 

[TorgoTheWhite]

Depends on what level of lore you are talking about as well. Some of my lore "matters" but not in a global/politics sense.

Currently, the party is going through a massive sidequest, because of a motivation to destroy a cursed sword, remove curse is only temporary at best. The lore behind the sword's creation, the demon's true name, reading and writing Abyssal, have influenced where the party is going, what they will fight, and personal motivation. The fighter carrying the sword is one of the few characters that can read Abyssal (without slow magic) when it revealed its' text, the wizard saw through the illusion on the sword & snow discussing summoning the demon who forged it.... needless to say the characters "in the know" with the lore are going to have some different motivations, preparation, and actions. The Warlock's patron also has a journal that carries a passage regarding the "protocol of demonic counsel", so we will see if they come together to cast the right prep spells based on lore

 

[Committed Hero]

Mechanical benefit, like in a loresheet.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I'm reading up on Coriolis, wondering if I should (cough) "invest" in it, and saw this:

In this game, the lore is meant to be experienced in play, not by reading up on it beforehand.

I like that.

 

[Scott Christian]

And it got me thinking---what qualities must lore possess to rise to the level of "actually mattering" in play?
Or perhaps put another way, what qualities must players perceive about lore for them to consider it as "actually mattering" in play?

I disagree with the premise that it doesn't matter. I think it matters on a few fronts. But each of those distills to one thing - the players caring about the game.

• Lore matters greatly if the questline involves the lore.
• Exploring, such as puzzles and new locations, matter more if the lore is interwoven.
• Creatures that are steeped in lore can matter a great deal to the game.
• Roleplaying matters a whole lot more if it is lore connected.

 

[plecostomus]

Just wanted to share a moment from my session tonight where players got really excited about some Dragonlance lore, and how I got there.

1. At the first session, there was an aarakocra cleric NPC on the same ship as the PCs. No one interacted with her. They did know her name and profession because she'd been on the ship with them for the last couple days, but that was all they knew. They spent their available time with some fortuneteller NPCs instead.
2. As the players entered the dungeon, they realized the cleric had entered beforehand when they spotted her distinctly bird-like footprints in the dust.
3. They later learned the cleric has been causing trouble among the factions in the dungeon, and that she worships a mysterious god named Morgion who loves decay and keeping secrets.
4. The players found the crypt of an astrologer. It had murals on the ceiling of the astrologer making star maps. The players already know this dungeon is from an ancient period in Dragonlance history, and one asked if the stars in the murals have the same patterns as they do "now".
5. Particular to Dragonlance, constellations are divine indicators: when a constellation disappears, it means a god has descended to Krynn.
6. Particular to my game, in the age the players live the god Morgion has never had a constellation in the sky.
7. The rendition of the constellations in the astrologer's crypt showed a constellation for Morgion.
8. This led to a bunch more questions about the gods, and the players really loved the use of constellations in Dragonlance. They're now talking about making sure they check the stars when they get back outside so they can tell when things are going down and what gods are involved.

Back at Session Zero, I linked the players to my write-up of the Dragonlance creation story and told them they could read if they wanted to, and even say their characters knew the events described. No one read it.

Now they're getting the story anyway, in little pieces through this dungeon, and it's due to the questions they've been asking. So, this was pretty awesome.

 

[overgeeked]

Just wanted to share a moment from my session tonight where players got really excited about some Dragonlance lore, and how I got there.

1. At the first session, there was an aarakocra cleric NPC on the same ship as the PCs. No one interacted with her. They did know her name and profession because she'd been on the ship with them for the last couple days, but that was all they knew. They spent their available time with some fortuneteller NPCs instead.
2. As the players entered the dungeon, they realized the cleric had entered beforehand when they spotted her distinctly bird-like footprints in the dust.
3. They later learned the cleric has been causing trouble among the factions in the dungeon, and that she worships a mysterious god named Morgion who loves decay and keeping secrets.
4. The players found the crypt of an astrologer. It had murals on the ceiling of the astrologer making star maps. The players already know this dungeon is from an ancient period in Dragonlance history, and one asked if the stars in the murals have the same patterns as they do "now".
5. Particular to Dragonlance, constellations are divine indicators: when a constellation disappears, it means a god has descended to Krynn.
6. Particular to my game, in the age the players live the god Morgion has never had a constellation in the sky.
7. The rendition of the constellations in the astrologer's crypt showed a constellation for Morgion.
8. This led to a bunch more questions about the gods, and the players really loved the use of constellations in Dragonlance. They're now talking about making sure they check the stars when they get back outside so they can tell when things are going down and what gods are involved.

Back at Session Zero, I linked the players to my write-up of the Dragonlance creation story and told them they could read if they wanted to, and even say their characters knew the events described. No one read it.

Now they're getting the story anyway, in little pieces through this dungeon, and it's due to the questions they've been asking. So, this was pretty awesome.

Nice. Yeah, that's how you do it. Make it relevant now and the players will bite.

I'm also reminded of this video from Matt Colville.