Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
It doesn't really matter to the point. The point is that a DM would have to alter the setting, giving it special rules that allow PCs to know about levels.
What Does "Simulation" Mean To You? [+]
- Thread starter Reynard
- Start date
GobHag
Adventurer
I genuinely no longer believe this, if someone describes their PC standing stock still and the Ogre's club just smashes onto them as there's now an impression of their form on it while the PC stays the same because it's equally ridiculous to me that someone can say that they block or deflect that Ogre's club with their non-magical sword, polearm, or hammers.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
I very strongly disagree. Standing there and having a club bounce off of your face is much more ridiculous.
AnotherGuy
Hero
If a person declares they are standing stock still while an ogre is swinging a club at them then they are not actively attempting to avoid the blow. I may call to adjust their AC, I may deem a successful hit to be a critical hit, I may impose a condition with the successful hit with or without a saving throw or I may determine it is a Coup De Grâce.
At my table I'd likely put this to the floor and get the rest of the players' input.
Can a high level D&D fighter voluntarily submit to execution at the hands of an ordinary axe-wielding executioner?
Gygax's hp rules don't answer this question, because I don't think he thought it would ever come up.
Hriston
Dungeon Master of Middle-earth (He/him)
I laughed; but as I reflected I thought this is a really interesting reply that implicates a whole lot of assumptions that are present in D&D.
For instance, if hit points are really divine favour in the sense you describe, then is it possible to play REH-esque S&S?
AnotherGuy
Hero
I would say yes - certainly at our table.
I will have to take your word re Gygax as it has been a while, but I do recall Coup De Grâce being a thing within 3e and/or 5e within the rule books. 5e has many many ways to run the example with the ogre and stationery non-defending PC
Besides what I mentioned above there is the exhaustion track and death saves - the ultimate result could be determined via Degrees of Success/Failure on the hit roll or the saving throw which is what I would lean into with the help of the players to quickly draft a series of possible outcomes - as I would not want to leave something like that on me as GM to simply decide.
TwoSix
Programs in KOBOLD
I don’t think there’s an obvious right answer.
What I do think is that if you’re playing in a game with sim priorities, is that you have an answer, and that further mechanics you build into the game support that answer.
The core rules of every edition of D&D that I’m familiar don't have clear answers as to what the meaning of hit points and defenses are if a character is not attempting to defend themselves. Someone oriented towards Sim can rightly call that out as a weakness in the rules that should be patched.
GobHag
Adventurer
Was being a bit rude there on my previous post, so here's my take:
A simulationist design/writing is an approach where the designers/writers make rules and design content as if they were diegetic in the world. Not necessarily one-to-one all the time but works as if 'it exists' in the world, D&D has very few good examples over the years and what they do have has been slowly abandoned by the playerbase and devs so here's one from Exalted: The magical weapons are almost all ridiculously heavy, they can be Buster Sword sized or normal sized but very fancy, but every one of them weighs hundreds of kilograms.... if you don't have chi/magic juice, but if you put even just a sliver of magic juice it becomes light as a feather for you to wield--just wielding, anyone on the wrong end feels the same amount of weight.
This is meant to depict stuff like Son Wu-Kong's Ryu Jingu Bang who only he can wield with his strength(but allowing non STR fighters to also use it) or the Buster Sword, but it's justified itself through hoops instead of just 'Magical Swords are just Inexplicably Better'
A simulationist playstyle is one where the GM and group focuses on the interaction and exploration of the 'game world' itself. The players at the table want to act as if their characters actually do exists in an imaginary space-time location; The powergamer uses 'common believe physics'/(or half-researched knowledge from google) to crush challenges, in rules light game the groups trust and headspace are similar enough that they don't need much explicit rules to simulate the 'game world'. ideally only the things inside that game world should affect it, unlikely ofc, but that's why it's an ideal
@AnotherGuy 's response to me reflects that, their reasoning is because it 'doesn't make sence' even though there's nothing in the rules that prevents me from depicting an attack roll that didn't overcome my AC as me glaring at the Ogre as its club sends splinters of woods from hitting my gloriously solid body. But since their table's/'game world' doesn't fit that kind of depiction because of verisimilitude(A non simulationist denial of the same thing could be that since I'm a Fighter is should describe it by expression of skill because the Fighter is meant to represent a 'skilled warrior', or that it's too goofy and not cool enough)
A simulationist design/writing is an approach where the designers/writers make rules and design content as if they were diegetic in the world. Not necessarily one-to-one all the time but works as if 'it exists' in the world, D&D has very few good examples over the years and what they do have has been slowly abandoned by the playerbase and devs so here's one from Exalted: The magical weapons are almost all ridiculously heavy, they can be Buster Sword sized or normal sized but very fancy, but every one of them weighs hundreds of kilograms.... if you don't have chi/magic juice, but if you put even just a sliver of magic juice it becomes light as a feather for you to wield--just wielding, anyone on the wrong end feels the same amount of weight.
This is meant to depict stuff like Son Wu-Kong's Ryu Jingu Bang who only he can wield with his strength(but allowing non STR fighters to also use it) or the Buster Sword, but it's justified itself through hoops instead of just 'Magical Swords are just Inexplicably Better'
A simulationist playstyle is one where the GM and group focuses on the interaction and exploration of the 'game world' itself. The players at the table want to act as if their characters actually do exists in an imaginary space-time location; The powergamer uses 'common believe physics'/(or half-researched knowledge from google) to crush challenges, in rules light game the groups trust and headspace are similar enough that they don't need much explicit rules to simulate the 'game world'. ideally only the things inside that game world should affect it, unlikely ofc, but that's why it's an ideal
@AnotherGuy 's response to me reflects that, their reasoning is because it 'doesn't make sence' even though there's nothing in the rules that prevents me from depicting an attack roll that didn't overcome my AC as me glaring at the Ogre as its club sends splinters of woods from hitting my gloriously solid body. But since their table's/'game world' doesn't fit that kind of depiction because of verisimilitude(A non simulationist denial of the same thing could be that since I'm a Fighter is should describe it by expression of skill because the Fighter is meant to represent a 'skilled warrior', or that it's too goofy and not cool enough)
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