D&D 5E (2024) A critical analysis of 2024's revised classes

[EzekielRaiden]

Wizard partisans don't argue their class should be the best per se, instead ever since mid-2e-era they just incessantly low-grade argue for a little relaxation of a restriction here, a bit less risk to a spell there, a slight power-up to a spell somewhere else, more opportunities to cast per day, on and on and on......and before you know it, wizards are the best by default.

Why? Because all those now-removed restrictions and limitations are what once kept mages in balance.

We have documented evidence, from Mr. Heinsoo himself, that this was a pattern in the design. The designers of 4e kept trying to make Wizard just a little better than the other classes...except each of them would do it their own way. Meaning, Mr. Heinsoo had to repeatedly tamp things down a little bit, because he was constantly fighting his own design team so that Wizards wouldn't rule the roost. He came clean and said that he had erred on the side of caution, that is, favored slightly overcorrecting, and expected any problems to be minor and addressed afterward.

So...while you are correct that the biggest single problem certainly has been a steady removal of limitations, it's not only not alone as a major problem, it really is exacerbated by people both inside and outside trying to make Wizard the best class in the game.

(Aside: No, Zardnaar, I will not be discussing that specific topic with you. I know your stance. I completely disagree with it. There is no benefit to dragging that into this discussion too, because the last ten threads produced no benefit either.)

 

[Zardnaar]

As per usual people conjure up hypotheticals while not playing the game.

Wizard gets a lot of flak that should be directed at the other casters.

 

[aiouh]

As per usual people conjure up hypotheticals while not playing the game.

Wizard gets a lot of flak that should be directed at the other casters.

Wait you guys have been playing the game? I thought the game only existed to make up hypotheticals to own other nerds with

 

[EzekielRaiden]

As per usual people conjure up hypotheticals while not playing the game.

Wizard gets a lot of flak that should be directed at the other casters.

I do play the game. I play in two different 5e games now. Well, one is on a two week holiday break, but still.

Stones. Glass houses. You know the drill.

And, for those claiming that the Wizard fanboys don't partake in such discourse, here is the thread where they gleefully danced on the grave of "Spell Versatility", which they hated specifically because it could have made some Sorcerers slightly better at specific things than the most similar Wizard school. Because if there's a subclass of Wizard that does something, it needs to be the best at that thing.

I'm not joking when I say this is by far the most aggressive, demanding, and vocal slice of the D&D fan space, even as it shrinks further over time because it's like 95% 2e and 3e fans. Anything that they perceive as a threat must be defeated, destroyed, annihilated—and it is, as that very first post shows, allegedly sanity itself to listen to their demands, while being horrendous idiocy to do anything else.

They rule. They have ruled unopposed since they were part of the winning faction of the edition war. They get directly catered to, on the regular. That's part of why Bladesinger is as ridiculous as it is, for example. A Wizard dedicating less than half their total spell output in order to be objectively better at tanking and survival than a defense-focused Fighter...all while having the other half+ of their spell load out to deploy however they like.

 

[DEFCON 1]

So I assume then that you did not see the furious """discussion""" regarding Spell Versatility?

One thread at some point in the past? I guess I missed that one.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

One thread at some point in the past? I guess I missed that one.

It was multiple threads. I merely linked the one above that specifically did the dancing on graves, celebrating how they had destroyed a threat to their precious Wizard.

Edit: Hell, you posted in that thread, incredulous that someone would have boycotted an entire book just because it was going to contain Spell Versatility...and then instantly flipping to "now I'll probably buy it" once that one rule was eliminated.

Yes, it is absolutely that petty.

 

[DEFCON 1]

In a game where xp are given individually for what a character does (as opposed to what ideas it comes up with that others then carry out), yes - this can be an issue.

IME (and I include myself-as-DM here) when looking over things later in order to assign xp the DM will remember (or have noted down) who actually did what but won't nearly as often note or remember who came up with the idea for what. Part of that is because there's no risk attached to thinking but there can often be risk attached to acting on those thoughts, and risk is what earns xp.

As an example Corinda - a clanky heavy Fighter - might be the one who realizes scouting around the back of the castle could be a good idea but if it's Jarrod - the party's Thief - that actually does the scouting (and thus takes any associated risks) then Jarrod gets the xp.

So the six of you who do this?

My guess is the designers are not going to modify all their designs just to make sure your players are adequately compensated for their characters work. Not when the six of you could just take a few moments to throw a couple shekels to the players who are coming up with the ideas and then handing them off to the PCs best suited to take action.